WTF is happening in the UK?

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Woody
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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4621 Post by Woody » Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:15 am

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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4622 Post by llondel » Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:36 am

He was elected to get Brexit done. He did that, but had no real plan for what to do afterwards. He was also trying to clean up the mess left by his predecessors and deal with all those trying to wreck Brexit, so I don't hold him entirely responsible for the depth of the manure.

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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4623 Post by TheGreenAnger » Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:40 am

llondel wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:36 am
He was elected to get Brexit done. He did that, but had no real plan for what to do afterwards. He was also trying to clean up the mess left by his predecessors and deal with all those trying to wreck Brexit, so I don't hold him entirely responsible for the depth of the manure.
"Wreck Brexit" is tautological as Brexit is intrinsically self wrecking!

As for getting Brexit done, he hasn't even managed that. Brexit is far from done, and he and that fool Frost had to renege on their undertakings ref. the Brexit agreement, and the fools that come after him will still be trying to square the circle in 2 decades time!

Johnson will promise anything, and everything, and mean nothing! Probably the most appalling individual to ever disgrace the the office of PM in British history!
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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4624 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:14 am

..until the next PM :ymdevil:

Boris is rated worse than May, who is rated worse than Cameron, etc, right back to Thatcher.

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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4625 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:28 am

llondel wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:36 am
He was elected to get Brexit done. He did that, but had no real plan for what to do afterwards. He was also trying to clean up the mess left by his predecessors and deal with all those trying to wreck Brexit, so I don't hold him entirely responsible for the depth of the manure.
Agree.

Disagree with him being worse than May or Cameron.

May bottled Brexit and Cameron just bottled it.

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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4626 Post by TheGreenAnger » Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:48 am

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:28 am
llondel wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:36 am
He was elected to get Brexit done. He did that, but had no real plan for what to do afterwards. He was also trying to clean up the mess left by his predecessors and deal with all those trying to wreck Brexit, so I don't hold him entirely responsible for the depth of the manure.
Agree.

Disagree with him being worse than May or Cameron.

May bottled Brexit and Cameron just bottled it.
In what way did he get Brexit done? Him saying he did is not getting it done!

If you look at the current state of Brexit there are huge important swathes of a complex agreement that are unravelling or that have not even been canvassed yet, let alone implemented. These issues will continue to haunt this island, slow its economy and generally be a negative for decades. Getting Brexit done was a slogan, just like the lies about £350 Million diverted from the EU for the NHS.

Look I have just given you £5.00. Don't spend it all at once.

See what I did there!

The only "thing" that was done was the group of deluded people who think that Brexit was done!
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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4627 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:51 pm

Count me one

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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4628 Post by Boac » Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:13 pm

To clarify - Brexit is 'done', but badly. Bonking Boris lied about that like he has lied about everything else. Whether it will need to be reversed is unknown, disaster as that would be.

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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4629 Post by TheGreenAnger » Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:30 pm

Boac wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:13 pm
To clarify - Brexit is 'done', but badly. Bonking Boris lied about that like he has lied about everything else. Whether it will need to be reversed is unknown, disaster as that would be.
Where I come from something is not done until it is completed! Tis that simple!

Taking credit for something that is not complete, is the attribute of rogues, so no surprise that Johnson makes such claims.

As for reversing there is little hope of that, Britain is regarded as totally unreliable by Europe and many other observers of the farrago of lies, bad faith and evasion demonstrated by this atrocious government.
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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4630 Post by Boac » Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:16 pm

Where I come from something is not done until it is completed! Tis that simple!
Sadly it is. Brexit is 'completed' by bumbling Boris and the Cabs. That is what I meant by 'done'. To sort it out is an immense task and one I cannot see the EU agreeing to take on. Unless there is a change of government here the EU will simply see a hobbled party in power and distrust everything they say - and, sadly, I cannot blame them for that. The 'new' Tory party government is going to be exactly the same shambles - look at the two of them - and we've got om and his blue-rinsers having the say in who wins, God help us. More 'U-turns' and 'blow-backs' than a game of Uckers.

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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4631 Post by TheGreenAnger » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:03 am

Boac wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:16 pm
Where I come from something is not done until it is completed! Tis that simple!
Sadly it is. Brexit is 'completed' by bumbling Boris and the Cabs. That is what I meant by 'done'. To sort it out is an immense task and one I cannot see the EU agreeing to take on. Unless there is a change of government here the EU will simply see a hobbled party in power and distrust everything they say - and, sadly, I cannot blame them for that. The 'new' Tory party government is going to be exactly the same shambles - look at the two of them - and we've got om and his blue-rinsers having the say in who wins, God help us. More 'U-turns' and 'blow-backs' than a game of Uckers.
We are essentially ad idem.
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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4632 Post by k3k3 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:06 am

TheGreenAnger wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:03 am
Boac wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:16 pm
Where I come from something is not done until it is completed! Tis that simple!
Sadly it is. Brexit is 'completed' by bumbling Boris and the Cabs. That is what I meant by 'done'. To sort it out is an immense task and one I cannot see the EU agreeing to take on. Unless there is a change of government here the EU will simply see a hobbled party in power and distrust everything they say - and, sadly, I cannot blame them for that. The 'new' Tory party government is going to be exactly the same shambles - look at the two of them - and we've got om and his blue-rinsers having the say in who wins, God help us. More 'U-turns' and 'blow-backs' than a game of Uckers.
We are essentially ad idem.
Isn't that in Libya?

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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4633 Post by TheGreenAnger » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:20 am


"We are essentially ad idem."

Isn't that in Libya?
Probably the only place in Libya where people agree! ;)))
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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4634 Post by Woody » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:47 am

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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4635 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:40 pm

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/0 ... king-hard/
I would have thought the result here explains exactly why Green Flag has a policy of only collecting people on the hard shoulder. The judge is an idiot.
The brutal reality is that she had a dreadful conundrum whether to get out of the car or stay in.
Rubbish, you get out. That's everyone's advice. The brutal reality is she made the wrong decision, against all advice.

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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4636 Post by TheGreenAnger » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:01 am

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:40 pm
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/0 ... king-hard/
I would have thought the result here explains exactly why Green Flag has a policy of only collecting people on the hard shoulder. The judge is an idiot.
The brutal reality is that she had a dreadful conundrum whether to get out of the car or stay in.
Rubbish, you get out. That's everyone's advice. The brutal reality is she made the wrong decision, against all advice.
The real idiot here is the meathead in the truck that killed her. He deserves "heavy" prison time. How difficult is it to spot a stationary car with hazards on. Multiple other vehicles spotted her and avoided the lane. All this other pious stuff about not stopping where she did is moot on a so called "Smart" motorway where any breakdown will put the driver in extreme peril (despite the tendentious drivel put out by government departments and agencies). As for Green Flag, just black flag them.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=in ... &FORM=VIRE

A lorry driver's perspective...

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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4637 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:42 am

The driver is not an idiot. He's licensed, he's done his time for a previous offence, and he's doing what his bosses tell him. And he's got to make a living. He was tired, and so inattentive.
It is very easy indeed to not register a stationary vehicle with hazards on in daytime when fatigued. The brain assumes all vehicles are moving normally since they almost always do. Anti-collision lights on aircraft don't serve their purpose either (you see the ones that won't hit you, but not the ones that will, and I have first-hand experience of that).
Governments across the western world, not just the UK, know that the transport system would collapse overnight if it were enforced that every truck driver was properly trained, licensed, paid, and rested. Being rammed by a truck from behind whilst stationary or slow moving has been my biggest concern for my entire driving career. And since we all know this, Green Flag have been forced into their policy.
Does their policy mean they refuse to attend 'smart' motorways, I wonder?

So what will fix the problem? Properly rested truck drivers, which means they need to be allowed to use their own judgement, and paid so that that isn't a factor in their decision-making. Neither of these happens generally. I was very relieved to hear our local snowplow dispatcher saying that is exactly what he does here. The drivers make their own calls about rest and meal breaks. They can go home for supper and a rest whenever they like, and they drive when they are able. They are paid per day, not per hour or minute on the road. There is no cab 'spy'. And as best as I can tell, they get the roads clear at least as fast as anywhere else. What helps is that they all live locally, so they are clearing the roads for their neighbours. And I have not heard of anyone being rammed from behind by a snowplow, despite the often atrocious conditions and a lot of vehicles stationary due to breakdowns or being stuck in drifts.

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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4638 Post by TheGreenAnger » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:02 am

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:42 am
The driver is not an idiot. He's licensed, he's done his time for a previous offence, and he's doing what his bosses tell him. And he's got to make a living. He was tired, and so inattentive.
It is very easy indeed to not register a stationary vehicle with hazards on in daytime when fatigued. The brain assumes all vehicles are moving normally since they almost always do. Anti-collision lights on aircraft don't serve their purpose either (you see the ones that won't hit you, but not the ones that will, and I have first-hand experience of that).
Governments across the western world, not just the UK, know that the transport system would collapse overnight if it were enforced that every truck driver was properly trained, licensed, paid, and rested. Being rammed by a truck from behind whilst stationary or slow moving has been my biggest concern for my entire driving career. And since we all know this, Green Flag have been forced into their policy.
Does their policy mean they refuse to attend 'smart' motorways, I wonder?

So what will fix the problem? Properly rested truck drivers, which means they need to be allowed to use their own judgement, and paid so that that isn't a factor in their decision-making. Neither of these happens generally. I was very relieved to hear our local snowplow dispatcher saying that is exactly what he does here. The drivers make their own calls about rest and meal breaks. They can go home for supper and a rest whenever they like, and they drive when they are able. They are paid per day, not per hour or minute on the road. There is no cab 'spy'. And as best as I can tell, they get the roads clear at least as fast as anywhere else. What helps is that they all live locally, so they are clearing the roads for their neighbours. And I have not heard of anyone being rammed from behind by a snowplow, despite the often atrocious conditions and a lot of vehicles stationary due to breakdowns or being stuck in drifts.

I see you accord professional people, in this case a truck driver, a great deal of tolerance. Me not so much after seeing the often appalling driving standards midst this cadre on the M20 on a monthly basis. I do, however agree that there is a lot that can be done to improve safety in the trucking industry, and yes fatigue plays a part in that industry, but nonetheless, ultimately it is up to the hogger behind the throttle to stay awake and attentive. This guy singularly failed to meet the standard of a professional driver. He will have some time to consider his failing in prison now.
My necessaries are embark'd: farewell. Adieu! I have too grieved a heart to take a tedious leave.

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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4639 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:16 am

My brother is a highly professional UK trucker, he won pay bonuses for no accidents back when they still did those....so he has stopped doing it. That is the state of the industry now.
It is not possible to make a decent living driving safely for the vast majority of companies. In between careers, I have occasionally worked in warehouse dispatch offices, and I can assure you that bloody stupid decisions are regularly made by dispatch bosses, with no consideration for driver fatigue, then drivers are yelled at or threatened with dismissal till they do it.

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Re: WTF is happening in the UK?

#4640 Post by TheGreenAnger » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:39 am

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:16 am
My brother is a highly professional UK trucker, he won pay bonuses for no accidents back when they still did those....so he has stopped doing it. That is the state of the industry now.
It is not possible to make a decent living driving safely for the vast majority of companies. In between careers, I have occasionally worked in warehouse dispatch offices, and I can assure you that bloody stupid decisions are regularly made by dispatch bosses, with no consideration for driver fatigue, then drivers are yelled at or threatened with dismissal till they do it.
I do have some sympathy for the drivers' predicament, and agree that there are some very good drivers out there too, and, yes, there are some pretty ruthless, not to say criminal, dispatchers out there too! I could go off piste here and grind on about my project difficulties in introducing a telematics system midst the the sub-contracted drivers of the tanker/bowser fleet of a well known French fuel company some years back but I will refrain from that here. Suffice it to say that I have a chapter in my personal memoir, which will be entitled "violence and databases!" It was a tough period and only sweetened by the fact that my next role involved in rolling out a complex logistics system for the commercial and light aviation arms of said company which was very rewarding! ;)))
My necessaries are embark'd: farewell. Adieu! I have too grieved a heart to take a tedious leave.

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