Migrants

[Undried Plum]

Most of the "aid" money goes, very directly, into to the pockets of the sponsors of the aid givers.

That's why it is "given" by the tax "payers".

That's how it works.

[John Hill]

Corruption is indeed a huge problem in countries that may be recipients of 'aid'.

In many countries the corruption is deep rooted and can be traced back to the colonial governments which failed to leave proper systems of governance in place when they left. We can see the same thing in modern times including the total failure to leave decent governance in Afghanistan and 'That Bastard Syngman Rhee' in Korea, just two examples from doubtless many.

[John Hill]

Most of the "aid" money goes, very directly, into to the pockets of the sponsors of the aid givers.

And a portion of that is passed on to the politicians voted for the 'aid' to be awarded in the first place.

[Nick Riviera]

Corruption is indeed a huge problem in countries that may be recipients of 'aid'.

In many countries the corruption is deep rooted and can be traced back to the colonial governments which failed to leave proper systems of governance in place when they left. We can see the same thing in modern times including the total failure to leave decent governance in Afghanistan and 'That Bastard Syngman Rhee' in Korea, just two examples from doubtless many.

Oh good grief. I thought we had established that generations have passed since colonial governments left. Systems have had decades to be put in place. But that doesn’t chime with your blinkered belief that all that is bad can be traced back to colonial times. Victims forever!

[bob2s]

John the other thing that you seem to forget is, that the lack of advance in living standards for ALL the population is the adherence to tribal belief that a lot of regions still adhere to,this also gives rise to one lot not liking what the other lot is doing when it comes to advancing their lives equally, hence civil wars break out and results in refugees and the migration starts.Note that none of this was the result of us but just centuries of tribal in fighting. I admit that this does not account for all migrants but it goes a bloody long way to explaining a lot of this migrant surge.

[John Hill]

Corruption is indeed a huge problem in countries that may be recipients of 'aid'.

In many countries the corruption is deep rooted and can be traced back to the colonial governments which failed to leave proper systems of governance in place when they left. We can see the same thing in modern times including the total failure to leave decent governance in Afghanistan and 'That Bastard Syngman Rhee' in Korea, just two examples from doubtless many.

Oh good grief. I thought we had established that generations have passed since colonial governments left. Systems have had decades to be put in place. But that doesn’t chime with your blinkered belief that all that is bad can be traced back to colonial times. Victims forever!

Not many generations in the two particular cases I mentioned.

I know this might be difficult for you to understand but once deeply entrenched corruption is very resilient to change. On the other hand in countries where good government practices are established corruption is unlikely to take hold.

The conditions in ex-colonial countries today reflect the performance of the colonizing power at the time of independence.

[Undried Plum]

The conditions in ex-colonial countries today reflect the performance of the colonizing power at the time of independence.

Bollocks!

Think: New Zealand; West Island; Oman; Iran; Norway; Greenland; Gabon; United States; Jersey; Falklands; Vietnam; Libya; et al.

You are talking utter shite again, John.

The conditions in ex-colonial countries today reflect the performance of the ex-colonial countries today.

The ones that we bombed the most **** out of are the ones who are doing most badly. That's why the criminal migrants who died on/off that rubber raft last week were from Iraq and Syria and Afghanistan.

[Pontius Navigator]

In contrast, India and Pakistan has centuries developing a civil service under colonial rule and 70 years of independence to change it as they wished.

In Madras the central police station was of magnificent colonial design, massive Greek columns and pediment. It was extended with crude, rectangular, anti-colonial square concrete columns. There was an outcry and I think they had to rebuild with classical columns.

Is Malaya a basket case? Is Singapore a basket case? What of Egypt, Morocco? What of the Caribbean islands?

Namibia, even though the Germans were kicked out over a century ago, is said to be the most northerly civilised country in Africa.

Some other former European colonies in Africa were not left in such state. To be clear, I do not include Britain in Europe in this context

[John Hill]

Think: New Zealand; West Island; Oman; Iran; Norway; Greenland; Gabon; United States; Jersey; Falklands; Vietnam; Libya; et al.

You are talking utter shite again, John.

The conditions in ex-colonial countries today reflect the performance of the ex-colonial countries today.

The ones that we bombed the most **** out of are the ones who are doing most badly. That's why the criminal migrants who died on/off that rubber raft last week were from Iraq and Syria and Afghanistan.

Colonies that get their independence in good shape are highly likely to continue on and prosper. Other colonies not so likely, what happened to Rhodesia? What happened to the former colonies of Belgium in the Congo?

Bombing does not usually start immediately after independence and is something that may come later.

[Undried Plum]

The bombings happen to countries which refuse to bend the knee to the godalmighty Septic Empire. Poodle Britain usually tags along in those atrocities, though I know not why.

The bombings and occupations and economic warfare are sometime successful in breaking the victim countries apart, sometimes not. Vietnam, for example, comprehensively won The American War and is united and free. Cuba won their independence from their oppressors and are endlessly punished economically for doing that. The Trucial States won their independence from Britain at a time when Britain was economically and politically buggered, but Oman in particular has prospered to an astonishing extent despite having rather little oil. It's notable that those former Trucial States are not at all democratic but are ruled in a benign way. I've never heard of criminal migrants from the UAE or Oman stepping ashore on those shingle beaches in Kent and East Sussex. Yemenis, yes. We are complicit with the bombing by proxy of that disobedient country which is being punished by The Empire for refusing to pay homage to The Septic Empire. That is the pattern, right there.

John, your theory that shithole countries are in the sorry state that they're in is somehow connected to how well or otherwise the colonial power was doing at the time of independence is utter bollocks. Your suggestion that we should import tens or hundreds of millions of criminal migrants from those shithole countries because they won their independence is bonkers.

[AtomKraft]

I wouldn't like to find myself treading water mid-channel anymore than these poor migrants, but really if they choose to try and get across the ditch intent on illegally entering the UK and end up wet- it's mainly down to them.
I hear endless bleating about how legal channels should be opened to allow them to claim UK asylum, when still in France. Incredible!

Why not just send Border Farce over and pick them up from the French beaches? Think how much safer it would be...

[OFSO]

On the subject of wealthy nations Putting Historical Events right, perhaps the British might come down here and unsinge the King of Spain's beard....

[Undried Plum]

I hear endless bleating about how legal channels should be opened to allow them to claim UK asylum, when still in France. Incredible!

That is exactly what we should be doing. Applications for legal status as a political refugee should be made at any UK diplomatic mission anywhere in the world outside the UK, or by electronic means for people who genuinely cannot get to a UK diplomatic post. Just as already happens with visa applications, but with much much more rigorous scrutiny.

Applications made in the UK by criminal entrants should be automatically disqualified.

It's not the genuine cases of political asylum that we should be disrupting. It's the criminal elements that we should be blocking and disrupting and deporting.

[Nick Riviera]

Corruption is indeed a huge problem in countries that may be recipients of 'aid'.

In many countries the corruption is deep rooted and can be traced back to the colonial governments which failed to leave proper systems of governance in place when they left. We can see the same thing in modern times including the total failure to leave decent governance in Afghanistan and 'That Bastard Syngman Rhee' in Korea, just two examples from doubtless many.

Oh good grief. I thought we had established that generations have passed since colonial governments left. Systems have had decades to be put in place. But that doesn’t chime with your blinkered belief that all that is bad can be traced back to colonial times. Victims forever!

Not many generations in the two particular cases I mentioned.

I know this might be difficult for you to understand but once deeply entrenched corruption is very resilient to change. On the other hand in countries where good government practices are established corruption is unlikely to take hold.

The conditions in ex-colonial countries today reflect the performance of the colonizing power at the time of independence.

The only thing difficult to understand is why you keep peddling this *****. Thankfully others here have also called you out so I will say no more at this point.

[OFSO]

It's open-ended is it? No time limits? In that case we can blame the Romans as we've obviously never recovered from being a colony of Rome!

[John Hill]

Your suggestion that we should import tens or hundreds of millions of criminal migrants from those shithole countries because they won their independence is bonkers.

I have never suggested such a thing.

[John Hill]

John, your theory that shithole countries are in the sorry state that they're in is somehow connected to how well or otherwise the colonial power was doing at the time of independence is utter bollocks.

No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying ........

In many countries the corruption is deep rooted and can be traced back to the colonial governments which failed to leave proper systems of governance in place when they left. We can see the same thing in modern times including the total failure to leave decent governance in Afghanistan and 'That Bastard Syngman Rhee' in Korea, just two examples from doubtless many.

[John Hill]

It's open-ended is it? No time limits? In that case we can blame the Romans as we've obviously never recovered from being a colony of Rome!

After the Romans left you were invaded by Saxon immigrants and you went back to living in daub and wattle, fortunately for you an invasion in the 11th century put you back on track although it was another thousand years before you stopped throwing your shite out into the streets.

[AtomKraft]

Where are you from John?, clearly not NZ.

Were your Grandparents British?

[Pontius Navigator]

AK, there is certainly enough to convince me that Hill the Museum is in NZ.