Migrants

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AtomKraft
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Re: Migrants

#521 Post by AtomKraft » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:07 pm

Lets's offshore the processing camps to New Zealand.

You guys will surely welcome them in the name of Diversity- and it's even nicer than the UK.

Hands up Jacinda!

You'll be able to help the refugees, enrich your own NZ lawyers, and increase multiculturalism at the same time as getting some money from the Poms- What's not to like?

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Re: Migrants

#522 Post by 1DC » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:16 pm

Strange that the French can't stop the illegals but managed to arrest the four traffickers who were allegedly responsible for taking the money and providing the boat that sank on the same day that it happened!!

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Re: Migrants

#523 Post by om15 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:25 pm

Nigel Farage was out in the Channel on behalf of GB News reporting this morning before the news of the loss of life came in. Perhaps Johnson ought to go out in a boat and see for himself, Johnson also called the illegal migrants trying to enter the country without paperwork "victims". Nothing is being done.


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Re: Migrants

#524 Post by John Hill » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:49 am

The obvious answer which you are all carefully avoiding is that countries of the rich west, UK and USA for example, should rebuild the broken countries where these migrants are coming from.
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Re: Migrants

#525 Post by OFSO » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:38 am

Most of these broken countries are broken because after throwing off the shackles of colonialism they either elected, or permitted, corrupt leaders to take over, and thus conditions reverted to pre-colonial days. This is not the fault of the rich nations. It was their choice.

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Re: Migrants

#526 Post by Rwy in Sight » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:43 am

I see no reason to spend money to help people who don't want to help themselves and look for a free ride. I am too many aircraft from EU or the USA drop bombs in Magreb or sub-Saharan Africa. Instead EU civil aircraft carry a lot of tourists helping the economy of Morocco and Tunisia, Algeria decided to invest mainly in the energy sector thus causing problem to its people when gas prices are low. And Pakistan hasn't be too harshly treated either.

So tax payers in the West can keep the wealth they produce and people seeking allowances there should stay back and try to make their countries better if they can and want.

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Re: Migrants

#527 Post by Pontius Navigator » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:16 am

John would point out that Pakistan was a British construct, and Algeria very much French and they shared Morocco with Spain, but only for 44 years.

Perhaps John is reluctant to offer NZ as a sanctuary as the natives there might push for home rule.

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Re: Migrants

#528 Post by John Hill » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:46 am

I know some people are basically thick but surely it is not be beyond the capacity ALL my fellow members to realize that the 'problem' lies in the state of the countries the migrants come from.

Fix the fuxored countries and everyone would be happy....
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Re: Migrants

#529 Post by om15 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:53 am

Wherever the problem lies it is not our problem to solve. J


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Re: Migrants

#530 Post by OFSO » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:20 pm

No doubt the British government will be paying compensation to the families and friends of the deceased as the deaths are the responsibilites of the two governments concerned... They should have made the crossing easier not to mention spending billions improving the countries from which the migrants came to reduce their need to come to the UK.

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Re: Migrants

#531 Post by PHXPhlyer » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:12 pm

Migrant deaths give U.K., France a tragic jolt on long-simmering border dispute
Advocates and politicians who have long called for a more humane approach to the contentious issue said both countries bore a degree of responsibility for the loss of life.


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/migr ... e-rcna6714

LONDON — Britain and France traded accusations Thursday after at least 27 people drowned while trying to cross the channel separating the two countries in small inflatable boats, a disaster that delivered tragic impetus to calls for action on a long-simmering migrant crisis.

In the wake of one of the deadliest incidents to unfold off their shores in recent years, leaders on both sides vowed to ramp up efforts to put a stop to the crossings.

French President Emmanuel Macron said France would not allow the Calais coast to “become a cemetery” as he urged the U.K. not to use the tragedy for “political purposes." British Prime Minister Boris Johnson vowed to stop the smugglers facilitating the dangerous sea crossings from “getting away with murder.”

But advocates and politicians who have long called for a more humane approach to the contentious issue said both countries bore a degree of responsibility for the loss of life. It might have been avoided, they said, had there been a safe and legal route to the U.K. for those determined to leave their homes far behind in the hope of a better life.

From the back of a truck to small boats
"The first thing we need to understand is that this is a situation that has been ongoing in one way or another for more than 20 years," Robert McNeil, the Deputy Director from the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, told NBC News in a phone interview on Thursday.

While migrants and asylum seekers once relied heavily on using Eurostar trains and being smuggled onto trucks to reach British soil, McNeil said a crackdown at the French-British border has seen people increasingly turn to crossing the channel as a faster and more reliable route to the U.K.

Where exactly is the border? :-?

Since 2018, he said, the number of people risking the dangerous journey across the roughly 45-mile stretch of freezing water has surged. That's despite it being one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world, and dominated by strong currents.

"Once it became clear that the small boat worked, you saw a very, very rapid escalation," McNeil said.

After a slight lull McNeil attributed to the Covid-19 pandemic, recent months have seen a steady rise in arrivals. The daily number of people crossing the channel on small boats hit 1,185 people on Nov. 11, surpassing a record set earlier in the month, according to Sky News, which is owned by NBC News’ parent company Comcast.

A spokesperson for Britain’s Home Office told NBC News they could not provide commentary on the reported numbers of crossings.

The rise comes amid growing focus — and friction — over the issues of migration and security both in and between both countries. In France Macron is hoping to stave off a far-right challenge ahead of next year’s presidential election, while in the U.K. supporters of the Brexit campaign that saw the country exit the European Union, and helped elevate Johnson to power, have demanded tougher action.

On Thursday British officials criticized Paris for rejecting an offer of joint patrols along the channel’s coast. French officials have accused the U.K. of making it too easy for migrants to remain in the country and work if they safely navigate the crossing. Macron also called on other European countries to do more to stop the migrants reaching France in the first place.


‘Shocked and appalled and deeply saddened’: Boris Johnson on migrant drowning tragedy
NOV. 24, 202101:36
No 'safe and legal route' to U.K., advocates say
Tim Naor Hilton, the chief executive of the immigration advocacy group Refugee Action, said he believed France and Britain's response to the unfolding crisis was wrongheaded.

Migrants and asylum seekers would continue to risk their lives to reach the U.K. unless "safe and legal" routes to claiming asylum were made available, he said.

“What we know is that people who are crossing the channel in these small boats are taking unbelievable risks, risks they know and understand, but it shows that level of desperation to be able to find safety and protection and to build a new life,” he said.

A report published earlier this month by the Refugee Council, a U.K.-based organization working to support asylum seekers and migrants, found that 91 percent of people crossing the channel between January 2020 and May 2021 had come from just ten countries "where human rights abuses and persecution are common."

Among those countries were Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Sudan and Yemen, the report said, citing data obtained from Britain's interior ministry through a Freedom of Information request. A spokesperson for the ministry told NBC News they could not provide any comment on the subject.

"They are fleeing for their safety and to try to rebuild their lives and right now what we’re seeing is those same people dying in the waters around this country which should be a total moment of national shame," Naor Hilton said.

More than 25,000 people have made the dangerous Channel crossing so far this year, according to Reuters, about triple the total for the whole of 2020.Gonzalo Fuentes / Reuters
In a statement, Doctors Without Borders said Wednesday's tragedy was a “tragic reminder that harsh migration policies do not work.”

“Without enough safe and legal routes, people have no choice other than to risk their lives to come to the U.K.”

McNeil said he also believed that access to a safe means of claiming asylum in Britain might have prevented the tragedy.

"There is no route into the U.K. for people to actively claim asylum here," he said. "There's no way that you can do it unless you actively arrive on U.K. soil."

While the U.K. does have a refugee resettlement program in place, McNeil likened it to "the claw" in the film Toy Story, referring to an arcade game where a select few toys are plucked out of a machine.

New data released on Thursday showed that the number of people resettled under the scheme has also been on the decline, with 1,171 people resettled in the 12 months to September 2021 — a decrease of around 45 percent compared to the 12 months prior.

'A watershed moment?'
In the wake of Wednesday's tragedy, some British politicians also echoed calls for the government to change tack.

Zarah Sultana, a Member of Parliament for the opposition Labour Party, said she was “heartbroken” by the deaths.

“Please let this be the moment we provide safe routes to welcome refugees to Britain, instead of endlessly whipping up hate and fear,” Sultana wrote on Twitter.

Caroline Lucas, a Green Party MP who previously led the party, blamed the deadly incident on "cruel, inhumane policies."

The criticism comes as the U.K. mulls a new bill aimed at deterring the crossings.

Introduced by Home Secretary Priti Patel in July, the bill is intended to “better protect and support those in genuine need of asylum,” while also deterring "illegal entry into the U.K." and making it easier to remove "those with no right to be here," the British government has said.

Patel made clear in the wake of the tragedy that the government would push ahead. A spokesperson for Johnson, meanwhile, told Reuters that providing a safe route for migrants would only add to the factors encouraging people to make the journey.

Home Secretary Priti Patel said Britain would “continue to intensify” its efforts to “prevent migrants embarking on these deadly journeys.”AFP - Getty Images
Naor Hilton said he feared there could be more lives lost if the U.K. does not shift its focus to "empathy and understanding why people take these risks rather than just saying they shouldn’t."

Wednesday's tragedy, he said "should be an absolute watershed moment."

"It should be a line in the sand."

Where is the sand? :-?

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Re: Migrants

#532 Post by Rwy in Sight » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:09 pm

John Hill wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:46 am
I know some people are basically thick but surely it is not be beyond the capacity ALL my fellow members to realize that the 'problem' lies in the state of the countries the migrants come from.

Fix the fuxored countries and everyone would be happy....
Aren't three generations enough for people to put their countries in order?

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Re: Migrants

#533 Post by Boac » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:37 pm

JH wrote:I know some people are basically thick but surely it is not be beyond the capacity of John Hill to realize that the 'problem' lies in the
......fact that most of the 'migrants' are not fleeing persecution or poverty - if so they would sink gratefully to their knees in the first 'safe' county they came to.

NO - they come onward, across the Channel in small boats, because they are ECONOMIC migrants. You obviously think the UK should fund a massive increase in the standard of living in their origin countries to level the living between their and the UK. Yes, right.

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Re: Migrants

#534 Post by John Hill » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:12 pm

What a bunch of wingeing and moaning prats, you sound like Pomgolian migrants arriving in NZ 60 years ago.

You want to stop immigrants flow into the UK but refuse to see the cause and the obvious solution. Poms and their Septic mates can always find enough money to destroy countries but you never have enough to deal with the consequences.

Why don't you take a lesson from the past? You could begin with educating yourself regarding the post-WWII recovery aid received by the UK.

Ungrateful, wingeing pricks, seems it is in your blood and we will never be free of you. Far canal!
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Re: Migrants

#535 Post by bob2s » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:29 pm

A bit of research on your part would not go astray John.
https://theconversation.com/new-zealand ... ore-162663

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Re: Migrants

#536 Post by Boac » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:30 pm

Argument lost!

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Re: Migrants

#537 Post by John Hill » Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:18 am

bob2s wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:29 pm
A bit of research on your part would not go astray John.
https://theconversation.com/new-zealand ... ore-162663
Whataboutery is never an effective arguing tactic.
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Re: Migrants

#538 Post by bob2s » Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:33 am

Not arguing John,just pointing out the error of your way.

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Re: Migrants

#539 Post by John Hill » Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:24 am

Whataboutery none the less.
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Re: Migrants

#540 Post by Nick Riviera » Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:33 am

Oh John, what a bile-ridden, UK hating, poor wretch of a man you are. Contrary to your assertions, I and most people I know are quite happy to have migration into the UK. We need many skilled workers who can easily apply to come to the country legally. What we don't need are economic migrants who cannot be bothered to work hard and try to improve their country but would rather come here and live on benefits. The fact you don't appear to have the intellectual capacity to see the difference is a sad indictment of the Kiwi education system.

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