Migrants

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AtomKraft
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Re: Migrants

#101 Post by AtomKraft » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:21 pm

What's the point in taking them back to France?

Do we hope they will retrace their steps to Senegal, Libya or wherever?
They will simply look for a new boat and try again.

If you're going to send them back, do it properly.

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Re: Migrants

#102 Post by om15 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:08 pm

There is quite a bit of emotive language here, are these people "illegal immigrants" or not?, if under European or International law they are allowed to just walk into the UK then what we are doing is exactly right.

If they are breaking the law then why are they not simply arrested on arrival for entering the the UK illegally, they can be put in a disused RAF or Army camp in secure facilities, unable to come and go as they please, those that are processed as genuine asylum seekers can then enter society, those that are not can complete a short prison sentence and then be given a choice of voluntarily returning to France or completing a further much longer prison sentence.

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Re: Migrants

#103 Post by Boac » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:04 pm

There is quite a bit of emotive language here, are these people "illegal immigrants" or not?, if under European or International law they are allowed to just walk into the UK then what we are doing is exactly right.
Hmm. I don't think you understand. Don't stand for parliament, please.

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Re: Migrants

#104 Post by 4mastacker » Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:11 pm

A couple of Apaches testing their bangy sticks and the Navy doing some lights-out, high speed runs up and down the Channel might be more effective than a fat transport stooging around.
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Re: Migrants

#105 Post by Boac » Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:35 pm

Some silly woman on TV tonight, 'Care for Calais' I think, reckons the poor economic migrants need a safer way into the UK. It is called the ferry or Eurotunnel, and it is a lot cheaper and safer than a rubber dinghy.

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Re: Migrants

#106 Post by Rwy in Sight » Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:47 pm

om15 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:08 pm
There is quite a bit of emotive language here, are these people "illegal immigrants" or not?, if under European or International law they are allowed to just walk into the UK then what we are doing is exactly right.

If they are breaking the law then why are they not simply arrested on arrival for entering the the UK illegally, they can be put in a disused RAF or Army camp in secure facilities, unable to come and go as they please, those that are processed as genuine asylum seekers can then enter society, those that are not can complete a short prison sentence and then be given a choice of voluntarily returning to France or completing a further much longer prison sentence.
Based on Greece experience last March when Turkey tried to push illegal invaders over the land border as they use to do over the maritime one. Back then the Greek government announced it will no longer accept asylum applications and will deport people right away. So yes you can consider them illegal and deport them legally. There is just a problem - they refuse to tell you where they really come from and the country you ship them to, refuses to accept them so effectively you can't deport them.

Also bear in mind that UK prisons are from most of them very nice place to be in comparison with a tent-city in France. And what happens when the sentence is completed? You still can deport them see point above.

Boac I wish the journalist was cool enough to ask how much money she makes per year helping illegal immigrants - since about a decade I favour this question to be part of a press interview: "how does the adoption of your ideas will help you financially"

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Re: Migrants

#107 Post by G-CPTN » Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:01 pm

Time for a wall to be built along the dividing line between France and England.

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Re: Migrants

#108 Post by om15 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:05 pm

Hmm. I don't think you understand. Don't stand for parliament, please
The reason that I ask is because Boris Johnson is promising to change the law to enable this problem to be addressed, so presumably current laws do not prohibit people without passports, visas or their own tooth brushes to paddle ashore and demand to be fed and watered.

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Re: Migrants

#109 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:43 am

Here are the problems.

Now that we are breaking free from the EUrocracy, we should sweep those complicated laws away and implement a system which recognises that illegal immigrants are criminals. Once we have done that, we can deal with the criminals by imprisonment and deportation.

Sure, we also need to have a way of dealing with genuine political asylum seekers, but anyone who opts to break British immigration law should be regarded as having deliberately excluded themselves from any possibility of such asylum privileges.

Within a few months, perhaps as much as a year or two, word on the street in the *****-hole countries will hear that the UK game is over for the criminal migrants and their exploiters. It was good, for tens of thousands of criminals for many years, but those days aren't coming back.

The BBC World Service propaganda outlets should be plugging that message hard and repetitively on radio and tv in all 40 languages that they broadcast, not telling the Third World what a bloody brilliant place the UK is to live.

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Re: Migrants

#110 Post by Boac » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:45 am

UP wrote:a system which recognises that illegal immigrants are criminals.
I thought that was what 'illegal' meant?

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Re: Migrants

#111 Post by ian16th » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:16 am

Isn't there a problem with the UK having signed up for the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?
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Re: Migrants

#112 Post by Boac » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:28 am

I always thought that applied to asylum seekers, not economic migrants? I assume you refer to artlcles 13 and 14?

Article 13: We all have the right to move freely within our country, and to visit and leave other countries when we wish.

Absolutely, but to do it correctly. Have you tried entering another country as a tourist without going through the correct immigration channels?

Article 14: If we are at risk of harm we have the right to go to another country to seek protection.

Asylum?

Nothing in those rights says 'Get in a dinghy, paddle across the channel and try and sneak into a country for your own economic benefit'. Well, perhaps you think they do? Do explain.

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Re: Migrants

#113 Post by Rwy in Sight » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:35 am

ian16th wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:16 am
Isn't there a problem with the UK having signed up for the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?
And the Geneva convention.

My understanding is that you agree to provide asylum but in a way it protects the UK interests not the illegal immigrants Although UP you still haven't answered my question: where do you deport them to if their country doesn't accept them and they don't have any documents.

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Re: Migrants

#114 Post by ian16th » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:37 am

Boac wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:28 am
I always thought that applied to asylum seekers, not economic migrants? I assume you refer to artlcles 13 and 14?

Article 13: We all have the right to move freely within our country, and to visit and leave other countries when we wish.

Absolutely, but to do it correctly. Have you tried entering another country as a tourist without going through the correct immigration channels?

Article 14: If we are at risk of harm we have the right to go to another country to seek protection.

Asylum?

Nothing in those rights says 'Get in a dinghy, paddle across the channel and try and sneak into a country for your own economic benefit'. Well, perhaps you think they do? Do explain.
I didn't make a statement. I asked a question!

Its what I do when I don't know the answer.
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Re: Migrants

#115 Post by OFSO » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:43 am

image.jpg
image.jpg (36.81 KiB) Viewed 198 times
Slight exageration, of course....

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Re: Migrants

#116 Post by Boac » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:44 am

Fine ian - well what do you THINK it means then? Have a guess?
RiS wrote:My understanding is that you agree to provide asylum but in a way it protects the UK interests not the illegal immigrants Although UP you still haven't answered my question: where do you deport them to if their country doesn't accept them and they don't have any documents.
To me, RiS, paddling into the UK in a dinghy is NOT seeking asylum. The International convention is, I believe, that you seek asylum in the first 'free' country you enter. In this case, the 'deportation' route is surely back to France which is the very last point at which they should have applied for asylum.

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Re: Migrants

#117 Post by Rwy in Sight » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:07 am

Boac, I was thinking in terms of the Northern Mediterranean countries that get traffic from all over the world via Turkey and Libya. And the first is a safe country.

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Re: Migrants

#118 Post by Boac » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:11 am

RiS - Yes - an enormous and sadly unenforced 'rule'. If it were it would impact badly on Mediterranean countries, of course. There is, however, nothing to prevent the occupants of the Calais camps from seeking asylum in France after they have passed through 'n' European countries offering asylum.....................

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Re: Migrants

#119 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:24 am

You deport them to where they came from.

In the very rare cases where their home country doesn't accept them, you deport them to the first or last country they traveled through on their way to Britain.

Alternatively, adopt the Strine solution. No pissing about, just ship 'em back to the waters where they came from or throw them into an uncomfortable camp on some remote island while sorting out flights to their home country. The vast majority of these guys come here from countries which have functioning civil airports.

On a related topic, I do wonder what the legal situation would be if the Begum lassie showed up at Lydd in a Zodiac tomorrow. Asylum seeker? Refugee? Economic migrant? Illegal immigrant?

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Re: Migrants

#120 Post by om15 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:38 am

Well I certainly think that she would be entitled to 5 years back pay in benefits, single parent and so on, plus she would make a few quid on selling her story to the press.
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