A book. "The road to Disaster".

[AtomKraft]

This book is about that time when enlightened politician JFK came into power in the US, and surrounded himself with the most brilliant guys he could find.
He went on from crisis to crisis.
From the Bay of Pigs- that's the smallest one- he moved on to nearly killing everybody's mother and father, in the Cuban missile crisis.

With that under his belt, and with the best of intentions, he launched the US into Vietnam, killing another 3-4 million people.

We criticise Hitler for 6 million dead. For Stalin, who knows how many millions? 30 million in the Congo courtesy of Belgium, but blacks- so who cares really? Let's face it- we never mourned them.

But an American leader kills 3-4 million and gets scarcely a mention?

This book, which I heartily recommend, deals with Dean Rusk, George McBundy and MacNamaras' thinking as the US descended into the hell hole of Viet-Nam.

These guys were really clever, and well intentioned.

With the best of intentions, they got sucked in, chewed up, and spat out.

The thing is, they were genuinely well intentioned people. They were trying to do their best- they resisted, to some extent, the wilder excesses of the military....and yet- they bottled it. They couldn't bring themselves to see things, as they actually were- even when it should have been clear.

The guy who wrote this book has picked it all apart. He's gone into great detail, and explained- using conventional psychological models, why the politicians, and the Chiefs bungled it.

Throughout, I thought, MacNamaras thinking stands tall.
But still he was too weak.
He always saw himself as a servant to the President, but he was better informed than LBJ. His guidance should have been stronger.
To him came the chance to make the big change- perhaps to stop the ineffective bombing- but he couldn't bring himself to go against his President, or the Chiefs.

A poor show all round, except of course by the Viets, and General Giap.

It's a lesson in decision making, that I have learned from, a fascinating tale.

[ian16th]

From the Bay of Pigs- that's the smallest one-

The Hawker Sea Fury's did rather well.

For Castro that was.

[AtomKraft]

Ian.
Yep. That was Bay of Pigs.
They all knew what was coming.

[AtomKraft]

It's the thinking, how decisions were made, that's the subject here.
Decisions were made, that seemed good, but were awful- taken by the brightest minds....

It explains why.

[AtomKraft]

We can sit here, as I do, fiddling with our computers.

I wasn't there during the Christmas Bombing campaign in 1972- I was twelve.

As I opened my presents, I had no idea what was happening in Ha Noi.

LINEBACKER 2

I wasn't on board any of the fifteen B-52s shot down, wasn't amongst those bombed.

Merry Christmas.

[Pontius Navigator]

All I can say is thank goodness Harold Wilson kept us out. Mind you, Dean Rusk implored HW to remain East of Suez, effectively holding the US left flank.

[Pontius Navigator]

From a different thread, I remember a lunch stop in Guam. While we were there a troop charter came in bound for the US. A single line of troops, all in very smart tropical uniform filed into the terminal, there was no excited going home chatter. They just filed into the Class 6, all emerged with long carrier bags each with 6 bottles of duty free, all still in single file.

They were like Zombies. This was no returning unit going home from a successful operation. It was 1968.

[barkingmad]

A Bright Shining Lie is another brilliant book about how ‘advisers and training’ can result in the generous benefactor becoming sucked into a major conflict from which it’s difficult to depart and is an object lesson to politicos everywhere.

It’s an excellent account of the beginnings of the Vietnam disaster and was probably the one book which stimulated my interest in (relatively recent) history, a topic which left me cold and disinterested as a spotty schoolkid being forced to remember birthdates of Henry the 2nd and other exciting facts.

[Pontius Navigator]

If they had only invented time lines back then. 30 years war would be a millimetre, WW1 a centimetre, WW2 10 cms etc.

When will post-war be after 1990?