The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

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Dushan
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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#261 Post by Dushan » Sun May 22, 2022 11:31 pm

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 12:41 am
Happy Victoria Day everyone!
It may not be official (yet) but most media are referring to it as “May Long Weekend”. I think it will go the way of Dominion Day very soon.

Of course for as long as I can remember it is called May-2-4 holiday, not because it falls on May 24, but because of its association with a case of beer.
Because they stand on the wall and say "nothing's gonna hurt you tonight, not on my watch".

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#262 Post by llondel » Sun May 29, 2022 2:00 am

In the UK I always knew it as the late Spring Bank Holiday, to distinguish it from the one at the start of May.

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#263 Post by Seenenough » Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:17 am

Meanwhile very unreported

"SUPREME COURT Published September 19, 2022 12:39pm EDT
Federal court rules Big Tech has no 'freewheeling First Amendment right to censor'
Decision upholds Texas law that limited the right of social media companies to squash opinions"

Because of folks like this

NEW ZEALAND Published September 28, 2022 9:20pm EDT
New Zealand prime minister condemned for calling to regulate free speech as a 'weapon of war' at UN
NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern warned about disinformation online at the United Nations General Assembly

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#264 Post by llondel » Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:02 am

I would say the court is completely wrong. A private individual (or corporation) is under no obligation to let someone else use their property as a vehicle for speech, free or otherwise. The government is not allowed to censor. On the other side of it, if the court holds that a private individual or corporation is not allowed to censor, then they can't be sued for the content. My understanding of section 230 is that it is an attempt to find a middle ground, plus it saves the cost of paying someone to moderate stuff to avoid being sued.

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#265 Post by TheGreenAnger » Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:36 am

Many people falsely assume that the principle of free speech implies saying, what you want, when you want and how you want without recognizing the philosophical, moral and legal requirements underpinning the concept of rights and concomitant duties that are critical to any discussion about freedom of speech!
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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#266 Post by llondel » Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:02 am

For free speech to truly work, you need a well-educated population, so that the fringe nutters are rightly challenged/ignored and the debate is reasonable and sensible and based on facts and evidence. Yes, much of the debate is about interpretation of the evidence and what path to follow, but when you've got those who claim stuff with absolutely no credible evidence and dismiss anything that doesn't fit their personal theory as 'fake', that can lead down a very bad path.

You can't suppress the nutters, you just need to make sure that people can clearly identify them and apply sensible reasoning.

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#267 Post by Seenenough » Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:08 am

llondel wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:02 am
For free speech to truly work, you need a well-educated population, so that the fringe nutters are rightly challenged/ignored and the debate is reasonable and sensible and based on facts and evidence. Yes, much of the debate is about interpretation of the evidence and what path to follow, but when you've got those who claim stuff with absolutely no credible evidence and dismiss anything that doesn't fit their personal theory as 'fake', that can lead down a very bad path.

You can't suppress the nutters, you just need to make sure that people can clearly identify them and apply sensible reasoning.
Left to Right and Right to Left equally, one would hope

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#268 Post by llondel » Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:12 pm

Seenenough wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:08 am
llondel wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:02 am
For free speech to truly work, you need a well-educated population, so that the fringe nutters are rightly challenged/ignored and the debate is reasonable and sensible and based on facts and evidence. Yes, much of the debate is about interpretation of the evidence and what path to follow, but when you've got those who claim stuff with absolutely no credible evidence and dismiss anything that doesn't fit their personal theory as 'fake', that can lead down a very bad path.

You can't suppress the nutters, you just need to make sure that people can clearly identify them and apply sensible reasoning.
Left to Right and Right to Left equally, one would hope
Yes, that's why I said "fringe", there's going to be some on either side.

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#269 Post by barkingmad » Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:29 pm

This must be rubbish, conspiracy theory and horse manure, especially as it has a connection with “Chinaaah”?

https://dailysceptic.org/2022/11/11/cov ... economist/

Or just maybe it’s not to be disregarded in these febrile days of censorship and “narrative” which must not be challenged?

Now pardon me whilst I retire to my underground bunker and launder the latest load of used face nappies which I thought I’d never need but apparently a YouGov poll of the great unwashed UK public sez the majority want the ‘plague’ measures re-instated as folks have started having colds & ‘flu once more, those ailments which were miraculously cured years 2020 and 2021.

And of course YouGov is totally objective and bipartisan and never displays any bias towards the topic under discussion, so the great unwashed must be right in their demands for less freedom and more lockdowns, though look where that got us?

Except Sweden and Florida...... :-w

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#270 Post by TheGreenAnger » Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:38 pm

barkingmad wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:29 pm
This must be rubbish, conspiracy theory and horse manure, especially as it has a connection with “Chinaaah”?

https://dailysceptic.org/2022/11/11/cov ... economist/

Or just maybe it’s not to be disregarded in these febrile days of censorship and “narrative” which must not be challenged?

Now pardon me whilst I retire to my underground bunker and launder the latest load of used face nappies which I thought I’d never need but apparently a YouGov poll of the great unwashed UK public sez the majority want the ‘plague’ measures re-instated as folks have started having colds & ‘flu once more, those ailments which were miraculously cured years 2020 and 2021.

And of course YouGov is totally objective and bipartisan and never displays any bias towards the topic under discussion, so the great unwashed must be right in their demands for less freedom and more lockdowns, though look where that got us?

Except Sweden and Florida...... :-w
So you are not going to protest then? =))
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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#271 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:55 pm

I don't think the media matters any more.

I don't think the opinion of government matters any more.

I don't think the average person thinks anything much of someone's statements just because of their job or post nominals any more.

Of course, all of them have a vested interest in insisting that they do matter, but even every opinion poll shows that the trust in all of them has been declining steadily for decades.
And the opinion of those who have nothing to do with opinion polls is obvious.
I think the US survey showed that only nurses, the military, and their kid's teachers (NOT teachers in general) still had a believability above 50%.

None of the audience figures published for the media are worth anything. In Canada, large numbers of media reporters are now government-sponsored, disguised as some kind of job scheme.
The simple fact is that very few feel their product is worth paying for.
It's not the bias, or even how they put their articles together.
It's simply that they are wrong.
They frequently fail to mention stuff that becomes very important, and their predictions are wrong.
It really doesn't matter why.
So, functionally, they are worse than useless.

Locally, people present arguments based on three sources.
1. Their own Observations and Reasoning, including historical.
2. The O&R of someone in a position to know, whom they trust.
3. Inference from what is clearly NOT happening, and should be.

I haven't heard anyone mention any media or government analysis for more than two years now.
Fortunately, it being a small place, one can often work out what's going on in government
"My cousin's sister-in-law works in the Premier's office, and she saw...."

So, we have free speech because no one in government or the media knows what we are saying.
I have no inclination to have what I think broadcast to a wider audience.
I'm only back here because people asked me to come back.
If members of the public can't work out for themselves that they need to look for other sources of information, then there's not much chance they'll listen to someone with a contrary view to the mainstream.
But people here DO strike up conversations on important issues with people they've just met.
And the most common one I get is "I can't bring myself to read the media any more" ;)

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#272 Post by TheGreenAnger » Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:01 pm

When the rationality of the common people, and their rights, is subsumed, then chaos will reign. We are pretty much there now!

Where are the thinkers? Show me the Renaissance person, in the midst of the half baked, irrational idiocy that pertains on the web, amongst the so-called media and the legions of our appalling unprincipled politicians.
My necessaries are embark'd: farewell. Adieu! I have too grieved a heart to take a tedious leave.

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#273 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:14 pm

Well, yes, chaos will reign.
To a large extent, it already does.
My point was that nobody in government or the media is going to show you the Renaissance person, though they will claim they all are.
You have to go look for yourself, or become him; preferably both.

The good thing about chaos is that it highly limits both the government's interest in you, and their ability to do anything to you, if you live away from where they are interested in.
Live rurally in a low density population country.
I can basically do what I like, as long as the public stuff is acceptable to my neighbours, and they are a pretty tolerant lot, as I am of them.
You do, however, need to be self-reliant.

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#274 Post by TheGreenAnger » Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:21 pm

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:14 pm
You do, however, need to be self-reliant.
True, and as ever my concussion addled head sees numbers in colours and meaning in music...

viewtopic.php?p=350412#p350412
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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#275 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:25 pm

Ah, the Heep!
Halfway between Iron Butterfly and Deep Purple, I always thought.

I would think 'Child in Time' is pretty relevant to our discussion too.
But maybe that's just because I've been on about ricochets on another thread.

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#276 Post by Woody » Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:37 am

Trying to get books banned, never a good sign from any political party X(

https://www.news24.com/news24/southafri ... s-20221115
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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#277 Post by Wodrick » Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:54 am

E i E

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#278 Post by barkingmad » Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:24 am

Here in liberal free-speech Blighty we are used to believing the restrictions on expression originally emanated from the good ole’ USA and it’s obsession with woke, diversity, inclusion, micro-aggressions and all the other claptrap which affects 21st Century Homo “sapiens”.

Now it seems the EUssr is set to trump (NPI!) this 1984 trend, so lay in the popcorn and sit back to watch Musk v Ursula Fond of Lying in the latest Premier League playoff;

https://unherd.com/thepost/the-greatest ... is-the-eu/

Some good comments follow the article and especially worthy is the quote from Orwell’s 1984, a work which seems to have been forgotten due to modern hubris. ~X(

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#279 Post by barkingmad » Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:30 am

Should anyone here wish to comment on this story please be careful, else you might answer your front door to a posse of wild-eyed hairy-faced fundamentalists intent on doing you and yours serious harm;

https://dailysceptic.org/2023/03/11/cha ... ech-union/

Of course the young teacher hounded from his job many months ago, in a row over an item in the educational syllabus he was asked to present, still lives in fear and hiding in this free secular country of the UK whilst those who threatened him and his family with bodily harm have not been arrested and suitably charged by the UK Plod, despite the obvious possible criminal activity of the mob... X(

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#280 Post by Woody » Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:14 am

Some comments from people who work for the BBC , seem to have slipped under the DM’s censorship net :-o

Image
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