The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

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barkingmad
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The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#1 Post by barkingmad » Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:26 am

This is a topic dear to the hearts of those on O-N, especially those who’ve fled the ridiculous shenanigans across in TOP.

In every country there appears to be a rising tide of censorship from political parties uncomfortable with what Social Meeja are saying about them and their behaviour and politics and also an almost hysterical screeching from various groups of what have become known as “activists”.

University functions are now seriously and adversely affected to the extent that under the previously understood definition of the ‘universe’ of thought and ideas it is now exceedingly dangerous to one’s career, health and reputation if anyone steps outside the accepted holy book(s) of conventional late 20th and early 21st Century thought channels.

At work and at play we are all walking around on eggshells and aware that the listeners to our conversations might be the secret agents of our downfall if we speak ‘out of turn’. The tragic news of Jordan Peterson, long a thorn in the sides of the PC Brigade and other ‘activist’ groups, only serves to highlight the dangers of putting one’s head above the parapet and speaking honestly.

I am not in favour of death threats, deliberately insulting nor demeaning comments on other folks but the “Stasi and Gestapo”, as they were called recently by a UK High Court judge, really have to be reigned in severely, otherwise we in the West end up in a society which more closely mirrors the former Soviet Union and the current North Korea amongst other nations.

I do not propose our legislators waste their limited intellectual resources and our tax money in attempting to “ban” such behaviour, a favourite tool used by the UK Parliament and it’s individual occupants. I see the way through this is to call out the aforementioned Stasi & Co and argue openly and equally strongly against the worst of their perceived persecution and their proposed solutions.

I will leave you with one other example of the treatment of a famous ‘free speaker’ and the pathetic perception of what she did NOT say and the way her country is treating her. If anyone feels that they don’t immediately have the time to watch the video, then get it up onscreen and scroll down through the comments to get a rapid perspective of the dispute. And what better place (other than the USA, Canada and UK) to start off than down under;



Tin hat and gas mask donned and await incoming fire. ~X(

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#2 Post by om15 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:38 am

I think that we do have pretty good freedom of speech in the UK, providing non inflammatory speech is carefully used I think that we can objectively comment on most things in private conversation. The leftie BBC woke lot are shrill in condemning people who don't agree with their views on breasts, slavery, drink driving limits and the EU, but take care to ensure that their views are considered to be acceptable.
This is unfair and must be resisted at all times, I ensure that I oppose their views at all times, even when I'm wrong, this evens the balance somewhat.

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#3 Post by Pontius Navigator » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:35 pm

Our next door neighbours are good neighbours. One is a retired teacher and the other H&S or similar, neither were 'fun' jobs. Our other neighbours were both ex-Army, I categorise these as 'fun' jobs.

In the military we are subjected to all sorts of pressures and learn to get on with things taking the rough with the rough. Black humour abounds and we don't go running to mummy if someone says something. OK, I used present tense and acknowledge I am talking a least 25 years ago when men were men and women were . . . well some were.

Now back to our neighbours. They think Brexit a disaster and much preferred that nice Mr Corbyn. Any hint of black humour and I feel they would be affronted.

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#4 Post by om15 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:51 pm

My next door neighbours (retired school teacher and social worker) are similar, I take great pleasure in using immoderate language when referring to foreigners, the labour party and the BBC, I suspect that they think I am very strange.
I notice that their tolerant views do not extend to fox hunting or motorcyclists.

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#5 Post by Pontius Navigator » Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:34 pm

Om, the difference is we like our neighbours 😁

I wonder if they secretly think we are killers.

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#6 Post by barkingmad » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:52 pm

Watch and enjoy watching a UK Plod Chief squirming, trying to defend the indefensible.
I understood police training selection included a requirement to have some intelligence and then to rise through to the top of the ranks, with or without a funny handshake, would require one to demonstrate superior intelligence and ability commensurate with that lofty position?



When finished watching try scrolling through the comments below and understand why confidence in UK Plod has sunk so low in recent times. And then off to bed and sleep soundly knowing this chap and his colleagues are responsible for the reaction you’ll receive when you ring in the dark hours to report there are burglars in your home. Yes, it’s swamp draining time!

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#7 Post by barkingmad » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:34 pm

Herewego again! Like or loathe her, where is the freedom of speech in a World-Famous University?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-o ... e-51768634

Maybe the very name “university” should be removed by statute until they grow up?

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#8 Post by Nick Riviera » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:23 am

The SJWs love to scream "fascist", yet their tactic is to either take away the opportunity to speak or disrupt meetings when somebody is speaking. Exactly the tactics used by a certain brown-shirted mob in the 20s and 30s. I have explained this irony to a couple of SJWs but they just don't get it. It's a totally different scenario because "we are right and you are wrong."

My son, who starts university in September, detests these idiots with a passion. He says he is really looking forward to winding them up when he is on campus!

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#9 Post by barkingmad » Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:53 pm

Nick R, I envy your son having the opportunity to go into the lions’ den of the woke culture and I sincerely hope he’s well armed with rational arguments to counter the prevailing woke majority.
I seriously considered signing up as a rather mature student with a local uni just to amuse myself by doing the same, but considering the cost in money and time I thought better of it.
HMG is promising in, the wake of the Amber Rudd affair, to legislate against universities who play this SJW game as dictated by their ‘students’, but doubtless such legislation will turn out to be a dogs’ dinner if it’s drafted by the recent products of the said ‘educational’ institutions?

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#10 Post by Capetonian » Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:32 pm

When I was at Uni in the 70s a friend and I royally pissed off the entire lefty brigade.

They published a student 'rag' railing against capitalism etc. A friend and I brought up the entire stock which had been laboriously printed on an Adana hand press, bar the few that had been sold, negotiated a discount for the bulk purchase, poured some petrol (2/6d a gallon in those days) over them and struck a match.

My son left Uni a couple of years ago and now that he earns a salary and pays taxes and social charges, suddenly sees that socialism is not such a great idea!
"Religion is the advertising campaign for something that doesn't exist."
The late Clive James

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#11 Post by barkingmad » Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:22 am

Nick R, here’s a character who will hopefully encourage your son to get in there and to shake a few ‘beliefs’ of the snowflakes. Brendan O’Neill has many vids online on topics various but this snippet is one of the best brief ones I’ve seen and it’s ironic it’s performed at the Oxford Union too.





Articulately delivered and with good content, it gives me hope that we’re pausing on the downhill hurtle towards 1984!

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#12 Post by barkingmad » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:43 pm

“I’m all in favour of free speech, but......”!

The backlash might be starting and it’s not going to be pleasant for our self-appointed censors.


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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#13 Post by barkingmad » Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:08 am

Some more info on the topic of free speech and the clampdown on it in recent times.
Don’t be misled by the title referring to EU and Italy, some 2’ 40” into the vid he reverts to a discussion with Toby Young on this thread’s topic and remains there until the vid’s end so fast forwards if you want to save that time;



In “Coronabollocks” I have posted the link to the “lockdown sceptics” site mentioned in this video for those with the time and enthusiasm to receive different opinions on the mess we’re in and how we got here.

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#14 Post by BenThere » Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:34 pm

barking mad,

I'm quite impressed by your 'Price of Freedom of Speech' post/essay. While you and I are usually opposed, I can only applaud your endorsement of free expression, the selling of your views in the marketplace of public opinion, and rejection of the censorship often exercised by those in power who do not want your opinions to be heard. Further in agreement, I find it enriching to engage with others when I can freely express what I think, and consider the thoughts of my opposite, all the while maintaining a genteel respect. I've found, at my age, a stiff double shot of fine Cognac lubricates the discussion, especially if such discussion extends after midnight. The biggest thorn for me is to have my thoughts rejected out of hand because of my demographic, economic position, gender, or any other screen that's purpose is to stifle what I have to say.

The summary, though, is that Freedom of Speech is the 1st Freedom. Freedom to defend oneself is the 2nd. Both of those are enshrined in my Constitution (which we Americans see as God given, not subject to government fiat). Today, States rights are being contested as the US starts to open its economy to commerce and employment once again. My personal view is that, in general, the more you can devolve power to the States, and even further to the localities, the better the results.

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#15 Post by llondel » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:52 am

The problem with free speech is that it can be used as a tool to oppress first the ignorant and uninformed, before using them to oppress those who know better. The only way to overcome this is to make sure you have enough well-educated people in the population.

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#16 Post by prospector » Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:06 am



Good way to spend an hour, quite disturbing really.

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#17 Post by barkingmad » Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:24 pm

At least some of their senior orifices are speaking out against the Orwellian mode of UK policing.
Also relevant when we observe some of the complete howlers committed by the "bobbies on the beat" as part of the Covid-19 lockdown enforcement.
Let's just hope whatever has been written into law for the CV fight will be just as quickly and completely deleted when/if life returns to 'normal'.

"By Mike Speakman; Retired Deputy Chief Constable, Policing Spokesman

15th February 2020

In recent years, it has sometimes been said, with a sense of irony, that George Orwell’s 1984 was written as fiction, not an implementation manual. This message did not get through to many establishment organisations, including Humberside Police. I served in Humberside Police from 1995 to 2000 as both Assistant and Deputy Chief Constable. This forces behaviour as recently highlighted is nothing short of appalling and I am quite distressed at what they have become. But I should acknowledge that the problem is not confined to Humberside alone, the country’s police forces are infected with the same virus.

Harry Miller, an ex-Humberside police officer, under the umbrella organisation which he set up called “Fair Cop” was in court yesterday to hear judgement passed on a case he brought last year challenging the way Humberside Police implemented the College of Policing’s Hate Crime guidance, and also challenging that Guidance itself.

Harry had shared a tweet and written some himself which called into question the latest craze of multiple trans identities. One woman/man/it complained. The police went to Mr. Millers workplace and subsequently interviewed him and told him that the incident was being recorded as a “none crime hate incident” in accordance with College of Policing guidance. Such findings could subsequently be disclosed to potential employers in a DBS check, even though no offence had been committed. There is no objective test to a “Hate Crime” it only needs one person to perceive it as such.

In common with most police officers. Harry has a strong sense of justice and took exception to the action of Humberside police. He founded Fair Cop and using his own money and crowdfunding took the case to court. In delivering Judgement in favour of Mr. Miller, Justice Knowles actually quoted George Orwell and compared Humberside Police to the Stasi and the Gestapo. He concluded that Humberside Police were unlawfully trying to restrict Mr. Millers freedom of expression. He did not however find that the College of Policing’s guidance in itself was unlawful. He has fast tracked the issue to the Supreme Court, so we are not at the end and there is a way to go yet.

Many of us in our party have been subjected to constraints on our freedom of expression, whether it be being de-platformed at universities, venues surrendering to the threats of violence from the left and police forces refusing to protect our right to hold meetings to name but a few. So, this issue goes to the very heart of our democracy and a right to express views that others disagree with. It’s probably one of the most important issues of our time.

The role of the Police in all this is very troubling. Police forces are actively siding with various extreme groups against others whom they do not support. The police service is not impartial in this debate and there appears to be some centralised coordination across forces which favours some groups over others.

The Police role in social media also needs examining. I do not believe the police should be responsible for what goes on Twitter or Facebook. The police role in monitoring communications goes back to a time when messages were written on paper, put in an envelope, addressed, a stamp was purchased and a trip to the post box was involved. Any such message had thought, and energy expended on it. Now a casual drunken few thumb presses can convey the same words, even though there is no requirement on the recipient to actually read it. We are also now entitled to take offence at anything. I think the Police involvement in social media is a perversion of the role and does indeed take sources away from issues that really matter and used to be at the core of policing activity. It cannot be right for the police to refuse to attend a domestic burglary but will turn up if you are thinking “wrongly” in their opinion.

Now we shouldn’t blame all police officers for this, although it seems some have become religious zealots in pursuing people who express a different opinion. The problem lies in the management levels and the mechanisms that have been put in place to centralise thinking across the service. The college of policing and the Home Office being the prime drivers.

I still have faith in the basic bobby, who understands right from wrong, still has a sense of justice but is pressured to follow the politically correct orthodoxy that infects all public services. I know harry Miller has the support of thousands of serving and retired officers who have helped fund him and supported him with information. Harry’s campaign has only just started, he has other organisations in his sights who are using their charitable status to pursue political agendas, and this is illegal. This campaign has a long way to go.

Across the country beacons of resistance are being lit, whether it be about grooming gangs and corrupted policing, University de-platforming or promotion of transsexual migration in schools.

For Britain will play its part.

Mike Speakman
Retired Deputy Chief Constable
Policing Spokesman
The For Britain Movement

Mike.s@forbritain.uk " [-X

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#18 Post by barkingmad » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:15 am

As BLM, ‘woke’ crap, PC crap and all the other ‘1984’ style madness envelops us in a stifling cocoon of STFU, it’s reassuring to see some of the celebs standing up and hitting back against the trend;

JK Rowling joins 150 public figures warning over free speech https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53330105

I pray that the backlash is dramatic, assertive and puts the weirdo’s back firmly in their nasty little closed-mind boxes.

At the same time I hope the task is accomplished with literacy, dignity and poise unlike the antics of their target group.

Is this too much to hope for? :-w

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#19 Post by boing » Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:10 pm

BM
I feel that if we continue on the present course the likely result will be violent. Presently we are living through a Mugabe type revolution whereby the powers that want to be are perfectly happy with fomenting crime and violence to achieve their aims.
When you get to the stage where those in power control a criminal and vicious mob that will do anything that is requested of them and that is at the same time protected from legal retribution by their masters you have a Zimbabwe.
If the mess in the US is not cleaned up by election time I would think that Trump, with all of his glaring faults, will be re-elected because the alternative in the eyes of the average man is chaos and the word Democrat is tied to every area of major unrest.

.
the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.

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Re: The Price of Free Speech : Unaffordable?

#20 Post by AtomKraft » Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:22 pm

Be offensive!
If you're not, you soon wont be able to be.

This might sound trite, but it really isn't. If you have strong views on anything, express them strongly. If you are correct, so much the better.

There is noose around our necks, and it's being tightened. If you wait until you are choking, it'll be too late.

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