Coronabollocks..

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barkingmad
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Re: Coronabollocks..

#421 Post by barkingmad » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:36 am

And with CV, how long is “unrealistic”?

If my second reference has been posted in O-N before, then mea culpa. There are probably too many Covid-19 threads for a wrinkly like myself to keep track of all the postings and references.

However, even of the BBC News item is 2 weeks old, the info is still relevant when one is looking at the timescale for aero-engine, car factories and vacuum cleaner entrepreneurs’ efforts to rapidly design, manufacture, test and receive approval and finally ship the units to where they are needed in time to save lives.

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Re: Coronabollocks..

#422 Post by Mrs Ex-Ascot » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:43 am

Could someone please explain to a retired anaesthetic nurse how manufacturing more ventilators is going to help? You need intensive care beds and medical and nursing staff who are qualified to care for patients who are being ventilated. And you also need a lot of equiptment and drugs which are probably also in short supply. ~X(
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Re: Coronabollocks..

#423 Post by G-CPTN » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:22 pm

The equipment is usually made in China and is then purchased by middlemen who offer it on.

The market price for one particular type of ventilator increased in a week from $27,000 (£21,700) to $96,000 (£77,100)

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Re: Coronabollocks..

#424 Post by ian16th » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:30 pm

It makes you wonder why the Chinese didn't get GM to build their hospitals in Wuhan!

They would still be negotiating the terms of the contract.
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Re: Coronabollocks..

#425 Post by Seenenough » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:37 pm

Mrs Ex-Ascot wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:43 am
Could someone please explain to a retired anaesthetic nurse how manufacturing more ventilators is going to help? You need intensive care beds and medical and nursing staff who are qualified to care for patients who are being ventilated. And you also need a lot of equiptment and drugs which are probably also in short supply. ~X(
Mrs Ex

I posted a few days ago along these lines.

It was pointed out here in the US that the biggest shortage and thus a limitation in the entire system was not the supply of hospital beds, equipment and drugs but rather the numbers of Doctors and Nurses available to carry out the treatments.

There is no use in creating hospital and ICU beds that cannot be manned.

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Re: Coronabollocks..

#426 Post by Seenenough » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:43 pm

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:47 am
SE, this side of the pond your primaries are on the back burner. Do you have any outstanding candidate or will it be a full affair?
Nav

Probably a discussion that should continue on the US Hamsterwheel thread.

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Re: Coronabollocks..

#427 Post by Mrs Ex-Ascot » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:09 pm

Seenenough wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:37 pm
Mrs Ex-Ascot wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:43 am
Could someone please explain to a retired anaesthetic nurse how manufacturing more ventilators is going to help? You need intensive care beds and medical and nursing staff who are qualified to care for patients who are being ventilated. And you also need a lot of equiptment and drugs which are probably also in short supply. ~X(
Mrs Ex

I posted a few days ago along these lines.

It was pointed out here in the US that the biggest shortage and thus a limitation in the entire system was not the supply of hospital beds, equipment and drugs but rather the numbers of Doctors and Nurses available to carry out the treatments.

There is no use in creating hospital and ICU beds that cannot be manned.
Sorry missed your previous post due to being off line for a while. Your last comment above is very pertinent.
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Re: Coronabollocks..

#428 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:19 pm

Mrs Ex-A and this is course answers the question of having surplus ventilators in a warehouse somewhere.

I remember when MRI scanners were available but not funded. Public subscription funded on for Boston hospital (the real Boston 5 miles from New York, the real one near Bunkers Hill). The NHS protested that they could not afford to run it.

I hope they have a plan for storing all the new ones.

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Re: Coronabollocks..

#429 Post by Seenenough » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:43 pm

Sorry missed your previous post due to being off line for a while. Your last comment above is very pertinent.
[/quote]

Many do not realize that in the US, Healthcare Service is a State controlled issue and it therefore falls to each Governor to ensure that his or her State is properly set up and prepared for the needs of their State.Every State is different so each State has created their own Healthcare structures according to their own needs and affordability.There is no one fits all solution in the US.

Doctor and Nurse licenses are issued by each State where they practice and not by The Federal Government.It is now clear that some States in the US were very under prepared for this pandemic.Trump has helped this practice limitation by issuing an Executive Order that permits a Doctor or Nurse registered in one State to be able to work in any State so as to allow qualified people to immeadiately go to were they are needed.

The lack of qualified personel is forcing States into Triage descisions as to who to treat and who not to treat which will be turned into a political issue down the road.

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Re: Coronabollocks..

#430 Post by G-CPTN » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:56 pm

Would it be better to have common 'standards' across all States?

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Re: Coronabollocks..

#431 Post by PHXPhlyer » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:05 pm

Lars:
Already thinking that. :-?
Lots of Christmas "presents" coming! :YMPARTY: :))

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Re: Coronabollocks..

#432 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:07 pm

G-CPTN wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:56 pm
Would it be better to have common 'standards' across all States?
Trouble is, do you have common low standards or common high ones?

If a base-line low moved to a high standard State, would that State accept them or insist on qualifying tests.

G-CPTN, don't assume it is different in the NHS. If a murder relocates to s different district it is necessary to apply for a job and accept a lower qualification post. Mrs PN moved to a foreign hospital (Inverness) and was given a lower paid and qualified position though actually expected to work at her last full qualification level of senior sister.

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Re: Coronabollocks..

#433 Post by Seenenough » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:09 pm

G-CPTN wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:56 pm
Would it be better to have common 'standards' across all States?
There are Federal Guide Lines but each State is independent under the US Constitution and each State makes its own Laws not only on medical issues but many others also.Things in some States are totally lawful but are against the law in others, using Marajuana as an example.

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Re: Coronabollocks..

#434 Post by Rwy in Sight » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:17 pm

Mrs Ex-Ascot wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:09 pm
Seenenough wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:37 pm
Mrs Ex-Ascot wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:43 am
Could someone please explain to a retired anaesthetic nurse how manufacturing more ventilators is going to help? You need intensive care beds and medical and nursing staff who are qualified to care for patients who are being ventilated. And you also need a lot of equiptment and drugs which are probably also in short supply. ~X(
Mrs Ex

I posted a few days ago along these lines.

It was pointed out here in the US that the biggest shortage and thus a limitation in the entire system was not the supply of hospital beds, equipment and drugs but rather the numbers of Doctors and Nurses available to carry out the treatments.

There is no use in creating hospital and ICU beds that cannot be manned.
Sorry missed your previous post due to being off line for a while. Your last comment above is very pertinent.
Friend of mine, a nurse very experienced with a number of postings explained me that in the hospital she serves they move stuff (not sure if she refers to doctors AND nurses or nurses only) from various posts /departments to help with CV treatment. BTW she works on a hospital tasked with handling cases in the Western part of the country.

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Re: Coronabollocks..

#435 Post by llondel » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:21 pm

Seenenough wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:43 pm
The lack of qualified personel is forcing States into Triage descisions as to who to treat and who not to treat which will be turned into a political issue down the road.
The dreaded "death panels" as feared as part of a single-payer system. Fate decided by clinical need rather than amount of money in the bank.

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Re: Coronabollocks..

#436 Post by Seenenough » Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:44 pm

"The dreaded "death panels" as feared as part of a single-payer system. Fate decided by clinical need rather than amount of money in the bank."

Which is largely why majority here in the US are not interested in a single payer system.

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Re: Coronabollocks..

#437 Post by llondel » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:59 am

We're already seeing that where rich people seem to magically get fast test results at the slightest hint of exposure, whereas those lower down the money chain can't get a test even if it's needed. I know one woman who was in hospital in critical condition on life support waiting for a test result because evidence to date suggested that the treatment required if it was not Covid-19 was potentially harmful if it was, so she was stuck in limbo for over a week.

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Re: Coronabollocks..

#438 Post by Seenenough » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:20 am

llondel wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:59 am
We're already seeing that where rich people seem to magically get fast test results at the slightest hint of exposure, whereas those lower down the money chain can't get a test even if it's needed. I know one woman who was in hospital in critical condition on life support waiting for a test result because evidence to date suggested that the treatment required if it was not Covid-19 was potentially harmful if it was, so she was stuck in limbo for over a week.
I would make an un educated guess that chances were Ilon, that if she was on life support she most likely has the virus=Your post would suggest that the treatment that she got had a positive outcome.

As it goes with those who float about money circles "It is not what you know in life but rather much more who you know" Both sides of the political swamp work on this basis.

Just look a Hunter Biden,knew effall about the energy business but became a very well paid Director of one.

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Re: Coronabollocks..

#439 Post by llondel » Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:55 am

Actually, it turned out her test was negative, it just happened to have enough symptoms in common that they wanted to be sure. Still in intensive care, last I heard.

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Re: Coronabollocks..

#440 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:32 am

Mrs Ex-Ascot wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:43 am
Could someone please explain to a retired anaesthetic nurse how manufacturing more ventilators is going to help? You need intensive care beds and medical and nursing staff who are qualified to care for patients who are being ventilated. And you also need a lot of equiptment and drugs which are probably also in short supply. ~X(
My better half's mom, who is 86, pointed out that that during the war people were asked to donate metal to the war effort and thus pots and pans, Victorian fences and gate posts etc. were proudly given up/donated by the the great unwashed in the spirit of co-operation and the communal feeling of doing something to defeat the enemy and helping "our boys". In reality the metal was mostly unused and the effort essentially a propaganda ploy by the government to make people feel better and enhance the notion of a common purpose.

I suspect that this fixation on belatedly producing ventilators is a similar ploy to the wartime government's one. After all it is easy to demonstrate how many widgets are being produced while it is bloody hard to explain why there aren't enough trained theatre/ICT/ICU nurses, in the first place, and even harder, if not impossible to train, the required number to support the use of the new ventilators anyway. The government are trumpeting the news that British industry is building 10,000 new ventilators. I predict the vast majority will remain unused but will serve as useful evidence of how hard the government tried while making people feel "better" while not necessarily being practically useful in the majority of cases.
‘We are doing everything we possibly can, but we simply do not have enough intensive care nurses. We are going to have to accept we can’t save everyone’
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 30851.html
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