I guess it's a truism that any idiot can stop an engine, or an economy.
Anyone can smash something, but how do you rebuild it?
Now that we've dug ourselves into this giant hole with the lockdown, how are going to free ourselves?
I'd suggest maybe doing it by age. A lot of retired people are less affected- because they've stopped 'working', and also by virtue of that age, might be the guys and gals who stand the most chance of pegging it from Corona.
Maybe there's a better way?
I think this lockdown is really overdone, but we are where we are.
It's not going to be easy though for at least two reasons.
1. The population are absolutely terrified, and will ***** themselves at the thought of ending the lockup.
2. The media will resist any attempt to interrupt the glorious time which they are enjoying, by hyping up the 'dangers'.
Any ideas?
Re: Lockup/ lockdown. How to end it?
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:36 pm
by barkingmad
Mahyar Tousi mentioned this news source which might tackle the topics and the angles which are being avoided by MSM;
Unfortunately their pedigree might not qualify them for the Press equivalent of Crufts but it could be interesting to monitor their output in these strange times;
I guess it's a truism that any idiot can stop an engine, or an economy.
Anyone can smash something, but how do you rebuild it?
Now that we've dug ourselves into this giant hole with the lockdown, how are going to free ourselves?
I'd suggest maybe doing it by age. A lot of retired people are less affected- because they've stopped 'working', and also by virtue of that age, might be the guys and gals who stand the most chance of pegging it from Corona.
Maybe there's a better way?
I think this lockdown is really overdone, but we are where we are.
It's not going to be easy though for at least two reasons.
1. The population are absolutely terrified, and will *sh*t* themselves at the thought of ending the lockup.
2. The media will resist any attempt to interrupt the glorious time which they are enjoying, by hyping up the 'dangers'.
Any ideas?
Atom,I would suggest a third reason that could be added to your list is also that opposition politics ,not only in the US,is exploiting the situation to further their aims and they are unwilling to be bipartisan and focus on overcoming the virus and also accept that we have to live with it as we cannot allow total economic collapse.
"never let a good crisis go to waste"
Re: Lockup/ lockdown. How to end it?
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:19 pm
by barkingmad
It’s quite clear this crisis is definitely not being wasted, at least here in the UK. Alas, the more I read the less confidence I have in our rulers who seem to be casting around for ideas in classic catch-up mode instead of actually appearing to be ahead in their game.
Here are some thoughts from a former MEP who is fairly articulate in his thoughts and expression of same, unlike the “presidential daily brief from Downing Street”;
Is it true the shiny new “Nightingale” hospitals are currently virtually empty?
Re: Lockup/ lockdown. How to end it?
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:24 pm
by Undried Plum
Re: Lockup/ lockdown. How to end it?
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:32 pm
by AtomKraft
I read that Nightingale is unoccupied, and that on some TOP guys wife's ward, they have 44 ICU beds- of which 39 are empty.
I spoke to my agent in Eire the other day, and she said the hospitals are empty....as they wait for the so far not happening surge due covid.
But that's for the other thread.
Just HOW do you wind a lockdown up?
Here in India my bil is trying to restart his factory- the blighters don't want to come back! They like sitting at home and are highly negative about returning to grafting.
He's got 400 lazy injuns to coax into action!
Re: Lockup/ lockdown. How to end it?
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:29 pm
by Woody
Just HOW do you wind a lockdown up?
Here in India my bil is trying to restart his factory- the blighters don't want to come back! They like sitting at home and are highly negative about returning to grafting.
Me too, I’m in absolutely no rush at all to get back to Perry Oaks
The minuscule and unscientific poll I've taken in the past 24 hours indicates that those I spoke with would be just as happy to remain at Level 4 for a further week, maybe two weeks.
Will see at 4pm.
Re: Lockup/ lockdown. How to end it?
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:37 am
by Alisoncc
Fantastic opportunity to experience Darwinism at work. "Far-right pro-gun Facebook trio behind anti-quarantine protests". Have every expectation of reading that Wisconsin, Ohio and Pennsylvania will be next CV hotspots in America with significant mortality. Yea !!
Washington: A trio of far-right, pro-gun provocateurs is behind some of the largest Facebook groups calling for anti-quarantine protests across the United States, offering the latest illustration that some seemingly organic demonstrations are being engineered by a network of conservative activists.
The Facebook groups target Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania and New York, and they appear to be the work of Ben Dorr, the political director of a group called Minnesota Gun Rights, and his siblings Christopher and Aaron. By Sunday, the groups had more than 200,000 members combined, and they continued to expand quickly, days after President Donald Trump endorsed such protests by suggesting citizens should "liberate" their states.
Yet another 'angle' on the Corona crisis is the Gov'ts furlough scheme- which has now been extended by an extra month.
Under this generous scheme, PAYE workers will get 80% of salary.
As they will not have to meet the costs of work, such as transportation and so on, many will actually be better of laying in bed all day than they were when working.
Given that the media are still likely to go on for a while about how dangerous it is to leave the house, and the furlough deal means little or no financial penalty......I think the return to employment might be slower than it ought to be.
Fantastic opportunity to experience Darwinism at work. "Far-right pro-gun Facebook trio behind anti-quarantine protests". Have every expectation of reading that Wisconsin, Ohio and Pennsylvania will be next CV hotspots in America with significant mortality. Yea !!
Washington: A trio of far-right, pro-gun provocateurs is behind some of the largest Facebook groups calling for anti-quarantine protests across the United States, offering the latest illustration that some seemingly organic demonstrations are being engineered by a network of conservative activists.
The Facebook groups target Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania and New York, and they appear to be the work of Ben Dorr, the political director of a group called Minnesota Gun Rights, and his siblings Christopher and Aaron. By Sunday, the groups had more than 200,000 members combined, and they continued to expand quickly, days after President Donald Trump endorsed such protests by suggesting citizens should "liberate" their states.
Certainly Ohio is already moving up the league table.
In general though Covid-19 seems to be generating a high level of cognitive dissonance amongst 'conservative thinkers' (if that is not a contradiction in terms). They seem baffled that managing the situation cannot just be left to market forces.
The whole keystone of an ideology is coming apart. Small wonder so many are in denial.
Re: Lockup/ lockdown. How to end it?
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:24 pm
by Boac
I am becoming increasingly convinced that HM's Government has right-royally screwed this up. We are now talking about a possible further extension of the 'lockdown' - months, not weeks, to 'avoid a surge in cases'. What do they not understand about the virus - are they infected by the Chump's madness (rhetorical question..). Whenever the 'lockdown' is lifted there willbe a 'surge' in cases - that is inevitable and totally predictable. I reckon George and Martha are going to get a bit rebellious if things do not change reasonably soon. Why is Germany doing so much better? A question that has not been answered, as I suspect the answer will not look good for HMG.
If the NHS had not been so run down by successive governments we might be able to progress.
I am becoming increasingly convinced that HM's Government has right-royally screwed this up. We are now talking about a possible further extension of the 'lockdown' - months, not weeks, to 'avoid a surge in cases'. What do they not understand about the virus - are they infected by the Chump's madness (rhetorical question..). Whenever the 'lockdown' is lifted there willbe a 'surge' in cases - that is inevitable and totally predictable. I reckon George and Martha are going to get a bit rebellious if things do not change reasonably soon. Why is Germany doing so much better? A question that has not been answered, as I suspect the answer will not look good for HMG.
If the NHS had not been so run down by successive governments we might be able to progress.
I swore I would eschew comments on this subject but I must agree with Boac (as I often do)....
There are plenty of Covid patients, trouble is they are dying under non-covid categorization(s) or in care homes etc. and those large super Covid-19 super treatment centres don't have the trained staff to manage all the ICT beds while the regular hospitals teeter on the edge (across all wards, not just Covid-19) due to lack of certain drugs and personal protection equipment, with staff managing up to 6 critical Covid patients each in ICT/ICU when in principle each bed/patient should have two staff specifically focused on the patient.
Every day the number of Covid-19 deaths reported from hospitals across the UK make headlines.
But every time they are underestimates of the true death toll, just a snapshot of what is happening in wards across the country.
For a better estimate of the scale of the pandemic in the UK, the total number of deaths, including those not linked to coronavirus, hold some clues.
Thousands of excess deaths are now being reported across the country, leading to the highest weekly death toll since records began.
And amid a meagre testing regime which has not yet passed 20,000 people a day, the number of deaths linked to Covid-19 is likely to be vastly understated.
As I watch the story evolve I now see about 10% of the population, with elderly and medical conditions which place them at greater risk. The rest of us have risk but at a small fraction of the above. In addition, it has been noted by the experts that many of the rest of us have unknowingly been infected, with few or no symptoms, have recovered, and now have antibodies that make them safe to interact and work in public.
On the other hand, 22 million Americans, so far, have lost their jobs. That's a mind-boggling, devastating statistic. Many of them, like my wife, have clients begging for services, but she is locked down. When the dam breaks, though, she'll be in clover. But there are others, I think mostly in restaurant, bar, hotel, and other, mostly entertainment businesses who won't have much of a surge, if any.
The sad thing is that so many people affected are at the lower end of compensation, have less savings, and face a life-threatening event, like starvation at worst, severe deprivation at best.
The whole world is impacted by this. I implore my friends on here to seek out those in need and try to help them. There are so many here in Michigan and I suspect there are many near you. Can you imagine a month ago that you were a happy Dad with two young kids, a nice home, new car, and POOF-all gone? (Except for the family, that's forever).
It's probably trite, but I think it's valid that the measure of us is how we stand up at times like this, share, volunteer, help, assist - do what we can do make it better. I, myself, can't so far claim any significant contributions, other than taking care of my elderly neighbor, but I'm seriously thinking about what I can do.
As I watch the story evolve I now see about 10% of the population, with elderly and medical conditions which place them at greater risk. The rest of us have risk but at a small fraction of the above. In addition, it has been noted by the experts that many of the rest of us have unknowingly been infected, with few or no symptoms, have recovered, and now have antibodies that make them safe to interact and work in public.
On the other hand, 22 million Americans, so far, have lost their jobs. That's a mind-boggling, devastating statistic. Many of them, like my wife, have clients begging for services, but she is locked down. When the dam breaks, though, she'll be in clover. But there are others, I think mostly in restaurant, bar, hotel, and other, mostly entertainment businesses who won't have much of a surge, if any.
The sad thing is that so many people affected are at the lower end of compensation, have less savings, and face a life-threatening event, like starvation at worst, severe deprivation at best.
The whole world is impacted by this. I implore my friends on here to seek out those in need and try to help them. There are so many here in Michigan and I suspect there are many near you. Can you imagine a month ago that you were a happy Dad with two young kids, a nice home, new car, and POOF-all gone? (Except for the family, that's forever).
It's probably trite, but I think it's valid that the measure of us is how we stand up at times like this, share, volunteer, help, assist - do what we can do make it better. I, myself, can't so far claim any significant contributions, other than taking care of my elderly neighbor, but I'm seriously thinking about what I can do.
I agree with a lot you say there and kudos to you for helping your neighbor, every little bit helps, but when you consider that thus far, over 42,000 Americans have died due to this virus, and with the number rising, set against the tragedy of people's incomes one wonders which is worse... it is highly likely that more people will die in this epidemic in the USA than all the US service casualties in the Vietnam war.
Yet another 'angle' on the Corona crisis is the Gov'ts furlough scheme- which has now been extended by an extra month.
Under this generous scheme, PAYE workers will get 80% of salary.
As they will not have to meet the costs of work, such as transportation and so on, many will actually be better of laying in bed all day than they were when working.
Given that the media are still likely to go on for a while about how dangerous it is to leave the house, and the furlough deal means little or no financial penalty......I think the return to employment might be slower than it ought to be.
Re: Lockup/ lockdown. How to end it?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:18 am
by llondel
Hard to decide which thread is most deserving of this one.
The Marion Star article is findable on Google, the Facebook account does not appear to be there so I can't verify that one.
Re: Lockup/ lockdown. How to end it?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:13 am
by AtomKraft
Llondel.
So what? He took a view that freedom was the most important thing to him. It's cost him his life, but people who lose their life's supporting a cause like this one are usually hailed as heroes.
Woody. Enjoy a few days off!
Feck knows who will really meet the wage bill for those furloughed......oh, wait a minute!
(But still, jam today always beats jam tomorrow!).
Re: Lockup/ lockdown. How to end it?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:24 am
by AtomKraft
Right.
Why don't we say to the over 65s, and maybe those with other health issues,"you are retired. Suggest you stay indoors and away from people".
Everyone else gets a phased return to work.
Reasons:
1. There is no vaccine, so attaining immunity by infection is the only way to get past this thing.
2. Here in India, they reckon 80% of infected people show no symptoms.
3. If 2. Is correct, there's no way we will stop this thing getting everywhere.
4. I heard the Chinese are saying you hardly ever catch it outside. It's an indoor thing.
5. Those who've died in the UK, have died in Hospital, in a not overloaded NHS. If it's gonna get you, it's gonna get you!
Right.
Why don't we say to the over 65s, and maybe those with other health issues,"you are retired. Suggest you stay indoors and away from people".
Everyone else gets a phased return to work.
Reasons:
1. There is no vaccine, so attaining immunity by infection is the only way to get past this thing.
2. Here in India, they reckon 80% of infected people show no symptoms.
3. If 2. Is correct, there's no way we will stop this thing getting everywhere.
4. I heard the Chinese are saying you hardly ever catch it outside. It's an indoor thing.
5. Those who've died in the UK, have died in Hospital, in a not overloaded NHS. If it's gonna get you, it's gonna get you!
Political flavored Darwinism seems to be on the cards in the US.
The Republican states are hell bent on opening up ASAP. And the first ones to break cover will be the elderly, the overweight and the angry, the stereotypical Trump supporters.
).