The Liberal thread...

[om15]

Righties understand what can and what cannot be afforded.

Some of the direst poverty and poor living conditions in the UK are down to failed leftie policies because they did not factor in common sense and the obvious, just processed 80 year old dogma. The insane objective of defunding the police will just about finish off the job.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Don't forget appreciation of God and guns in equal measure is considered a reasonable balanced view over there

Yes, praising the Lord while needlessly passing the ammunition always seems to define illiberality.

I suspect that many Liberals tend to question religion, which implies they may think more than they feel with their gut and I am heartened by that although I am not anti religion per se.

Not sure if this can be listened to outside the UK. If not I apologize.

Free Thinking (Goto 24:00)

[barkingmad]

Another pigeon was downed by my local visually handicapped clay-pigeon shooters’ club and once again a note from the besieged Branch Covidian compound was discovered attached to it’s left leg. (Does that indicate the unfortunate bird’s political sympathies?)

As we’re looking at Liberals or liberals on this thread I thought I’d include the pigeon message to link the discussion with our current/future loss of civil liberties so here goes, enjoy or choke over the Sunday roast;

“It really annoys me that lockdown sceptics are so often dismissed as Tory-voting, Brexit-supporting, libertarian-sympathising, white, middle-class, middle-aged Gammons. Okay, yes, that’s me, but there are plenty of other sceptics out there who don’t fall into any of these categories. And what’s really infuriating is the assumption thatt anyone on the Left should be a lockdown zealot. Why? As each day passes, more evidence comes to light that the lockdown has caused disproportionate harm to the most vulnerable people in our society – children, the elderly, cancer patients, the BAME community (not all of them are vulnerable, obviously), those suffering from mental illness… the list goes on. And what about the catastrophic effect the Global Economic Recession will have on the world’s poorest people in the developing world, with hundreds of millions now likely to die of starvation, TB, dysentery, etc.? Are left-wing people now just expected to sign up to the mantra of “safety first” and to hell with the consequences?

So it was heartening to get an email yesterday from a woman who started out by explaining she was a Guardian-reading, Remain-voting, Liberal Democrat who voted for Jeremy Corbyn at the last election, but is nonetheless a staunch lockdown sceptic. Here are a couple of the opening paragraphs:

‘Let me preface this by saying that I’ve never been one for conspiracy theories: There was a moon landing. The earth is round. My child is vaccinated. I know there is a virus, unrelated to 5G, whose effects can be severe with tragic consequences. However, I have been sceptical about the official risk assessments since the news footage from Wuhan emerged at the start of the year. And when a global reaction is so over-archingly bewildering that it has “someone like me” thinking there is more to this than meets the eye, something is wrong. I’ve stopped short (just) of believing that China engineered the entire thing to destroy the US economy and take down Trump. I did read the article in The Asia Times that linked to last October’s “Event 201” and find it rather odd this ‘event’ isn’t talked about more in the media. If you watch the video it looks oddly as though some ‘thought leaders’ and TED talk types who had been simulating virus response strategies (perhaps with good enough reason), just couldn’t wait to roll out their global virus-suppression protocol. When Covid came along (Coincidence? We may never know) governments went ahead on the advice of the WHO as if this were ‘the big one’. After Wuhan locked down with a strategy that was fairly alarming even by Chinese standards, our not-so-fearless leaders followed suit around the globe as though it were a game of Simple Simon.

This is not the big one. I say that as a pretty risk-averse person. My young son calls me “over-safety woman”. But as a cautious individual, I also question advice. Education is important in my family. My grandfather was a doctor and a teacher at the ‘Ivy League’ Cornell University medical school, my uncle is a doctor, and two of my cousins have PhDs. I’m half-way through a health-related science PhD myself (I have a long way to go as a researcher, but am trying hard and learning lots). I’m actually only saying that to keep you reading, as personal perspectives and anecdotal evidence sometimes get unfairly dismissed in the current data-obsessed climate. You’ll notice I’ve included no data or stats here. This crisis is about narratives as well as numbers. I’m just a layman (let’s be gender fluid) like many others currently scratching their heads or shouting at the telly in exasperation. All it took was a calculator (the back of an envelope would have done) to divide the number of cases, hospitalisations, or deaths by the population of the UK to realise that the chances of getting or dying from Covid never came close to justifying a full “lockdown” and all the attendant ramifications that you have documented so well on your site. The only positive digits in my calculation were on the right of the decimal point, preceded by a fair number of zeros. It doesn’t take a PhD to work this out.’

A luminously intelligent email from a switched-on liberal. Very much worth reading in full.

Yes, BM has donned hard hat and listening for incoming, beats TV watching any day, licence or not...

[Boac]

I struggle to see the motive/advantage for a lockdown in political or economic terms, and therefore question the suggestion that there is some ulterior motive world-wide in 'locking down'. Why are governments doing it? What benefit does it bring?

PS Why is this on this thread??????????? It has sod-all to do with C-19!!

[TheGreenGoblin]

Another pigeon was downed by my local visually handicapped clay-pigeon shooters’ club and once again a note from the besieged Branch Covidian compound was discovered attached to it’s left leg. (Does that indicate the unfortunate bird’s political sympathies?)

As we’re looking at Liberals or liberals on this thread I thought I’d include the pigeon message to link the discussion with our current/future loss of civil liberties so here goes, enjoy or choke over the Sunday roast;

“It really annoys me that lockdown sceptics are so often dismissed as Tory-voting, Brexit-supporting, libertarian-sympathising, white, middle-class, middle-aged Gammons. Okay, yes, that’s me, but there are plenty of other sceptics out there who don’t fall into any of these categories. And what’s really infuriating is the assumption thatt anyone on the Left should be a lockdown zealot. Why? As each day passes, more evidence comes to light that the lockdown has caused disproportionate harm to the most vulnerable people in our society – children, the elderly, cancer patients, the BAME community (not all of them are vulnerable, obviously), those suffering from mental illness… the list goes on. And what about the catastrophic effect the Global Economic Recession will have on the world’s poorest people in the developing world, with hundreds of millions now likely to die of starvation, TB, dysentery, etc.? Are left-wing people now just expected to sign up to the mantra of “safety first” and to hell with the consequences?

A luminously intelligent email from a switched-on liberal. Very much worth reading in full.

Yes, BM has donned hard hat and listening for incoming, beats TV watching any day, licence or not...

Why indeed?

Clearly you don't have to be a swivel eyed right wing loon to ask some of the important issues/questions that you raise above and as a Liberal (middle of the road and not rabid left wing bigot) I think we should all ask the relevant questions whatever our so-called politics.

As for the rest BM, you may well be a Tory-voting, Brexit-supporting, libertarian-sympathising, white, middle-class, middle-aged Gammon (I tick one or three of those boxes myself) but your obvious sense of humour and self awareness might make you redeemable!

Nothing worse than been patronised by a Liberal gammon eh!

[Seenenough]

"Nor am I telling you to do anything or to prosletyse you Seenenough, although I do encourage further reasoned discussion as should be de rigueur for all those of good will."

Gob,I am and always have been supportive of reasoned debate but more and more we are finding that less and less reasonable debate and free expression is being tolerated by the left.Many of these situations are now ending up in assaults.

One only has to look at recent events here where two girls ,outside the Democrat Convention ,started tearing up Trump supporting signs and took a MAGA hat from a kid because they are not willing to accept free expression .There are many examples of MAGA hats being snatched off peoples heads by those who do not like the free expression that a MAGA hat is.

[Boac]

Maybe they just want one?

[Seenenough]

Maybe they just want one?

They have no right to remove one from someone if they want one .

If you would like one, Bo, I will mail you one.

[Boac]

That'll be great - make it two.

[Dushan]

"Righties try to improve themselves, and so improve things one person at a time. They don't try to bend the state to their way of thinking as they realise it's not so easy to change it."


Aah the statement of absolutes
Think about that absurd comment for a minute, perhaps consider the NRA and the Jewish Lobby, last time I checked both were extreme right wing and both spend huge amounts of cash and/or time influencing Government

You may want to check your facts, about American Jews. They predominately vote Democrat, which is a mystery to me, as to why, but they do.

[TheGreenGoblin]

"Righties try to improve themselves, and so improve things one person at a time. They don't try to bend the state to their way of thinking as they realise it's not so easy to change it."


Aah the statement of absolutes
Think about that absurd comment for a minute, perhaps consider the NRA and the Jewish Lobby, last time I checked both were extreme right wing and both spend huge amounts of cash and/or time influencing Government

You may want to check your facts, about American Jews. They predominately vote Democrat, which is a mystery to me, as to why, but they do.

Better educated probably!

[Seenenough]

"Righties try to improve themselves, and so improve things one person at a time. They don't try to bend the state to their way of thinking as they realise it's not so easy to change it."


Aah the statement of absolutes
Think about that absurd comment for a minute, perhaps consider the NRA and the Jewish Lobby, last time I checked both were extreme right wing and both spend huge amounts of cash and/or time influencing Government

You may want to check your facts, about American Jews. They predominately vote Democrat, which is a mystery to me, as to why, but they do.

Better educated probably!

My point exactly-it seems that ,from what you are saying Gob that it is "uneducated" not to vote Democrat.

[TheGreenGoblin]

So infra dig not to vote Democrat Seenenough! How embarrassing it must be for some to have admit that they voted Republican and therefore for Donald Trump and his coterie of liars, charlatans, criminals and fools!

[Seenenough]

So infra dig not to vote Democrat Seenenough! How embarrassing it must be for some to have admit that they voted Republican and therefore for Donald Trump and his coterie of liars, charlatans, criminals and fools!

Gob ,It does not take much to get you back to name calling and belittling and berating those who do not agree with your "educated" way of thinking.You are the epitome of an intolerant Liberal,in my view.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Where have I named called or belittled you Seenenough? I presume you were not entitled to vote in the last election and therefore fate has protected you from making an awful faux pas as well as from being the current focus my mordant wit!

[Seenenough]

Where have I named called or belittled you Seenenough! I presume you were not entitled to vote in the last election and therefore fate has protected you from making an awful faux pas as well as from being the current focus my mordant wit!

As I have said before Gob,I have no voting rights and will not vote as it is against the law.

Might I suggest to you that you should prepare yourself because there is a very real possibility that Trump may well end up serving a second term.

So far we have not seen the Democrats or Biden (largely controlled by progressives and liberals) offer anything to voters other than an endless negative view of the USA all of course brought about, in their view by Trump.As Trump himself regularly says the only reason he became POTUS was because Obama and Biden never delivered to the voters.

I happen to hold that the Democrats are harming themselves terribly by being so negative and dark about how America is.

The Republican Convention is now coming up and I look forward to seeing what they have to offer going forward.

[boing]

GG

It may surprise you that I voted for Obama twice. The first term I made allowances for his failure to deliver on his election promises. In the second term it was clear that he had no intention of fulfilling any of his promises. Comes Clinton, apart from her personal failings, her obvious feeling of entitlement, her sickening confidence inspired by the fact DNC had rigged the nomination in her favour, the fact that law enforcement management in Washington was solidly behind the Democrats, the endorsement of Obama was the final straw. Obama lives in the glow of being the first black President and the fact that he is a great speaker. His record of failed promises and his record of getting us into international trouble is casually ignored by his adulators.

So we came to the decision between Clinton and Trump which turned from a consideration of "or" to a consideration of "not". It was quite clear that she was banking on election based on her relationship with Obama, her relationship with Bill (however seedy his actions may have been) and the fact that she was female, not in my opinion reasons for election so my vote went to Trump. Since I see Biden as a product of the same coterie I will likely swallow and vote for Trump again despite his ineptitude. Somehow it appears that although Trump will cause problems owing to his errors the glove puppet Biden will cause problems from his master's malice. What a great choice.

.

[barkingmad]

I struggle to see the motive/advantage for a lockdown in political or economic terms, and therefore question the suggestion that there is some ulterior motive world-wide in 'locking down'. Why are governments doing it? What benefit does it bring?

PS Why is this on this thread??????????? It has sod-all to do with C-19!!

But you see fit to comment on lockdown whilst criticising me for posting about LIBERALS on a thread called “The Liberal Thread?

Maybe if your Firestreak/Red Top trigger finger was not trembling so much you might have noticed the following in my post?

“As we’re looking at Liberals or liberals on this thread I thought I’d include the pigeon message to link the discussion with our current/future loss of civil liberties so here goes, enjoy or choke over the Sunday roast;”


“So it was heartening to get an email yesterday from a woman who started out by explaining she was a Guardian-reading, Remain-voting, Liberal Democrat...”.

And; “A luminously intelligent email from a switched-on liberal.”

Perhaps it’s time you researched the relaxing qualities of a good G&T of a Sunday pm and carefully considered what you want to say before squeezing the pickle trigger?

I had hoped the days of boac versus Rainboe over in TOP had long ago ended but now I see why the war went on so long.

Now be a good chap and concentrate on the really important issues. You know I’m barking and therefore liable to slip in the odd article of bait for mine and others amusement, don’t take it all so seriously!

[Boac]

I struggle to see the motive/advantage for a lockdown in political or economic terms, and therefore question the suggestion that there is some ulterior motive world-wide in 'locking down'. Why are governments doing it? What benefit does it bring?

PS Why is this on this thread??????????? It has sod-all to do with C-19!!

There there, old chap. The problem is that you totally divert a thread away from 'LIBERALS' to 'LOCKDOWN'. Glad you have your 'hard hat' on. We dig through this fetish you have with 'pigeons' and 'Branch Covidian's - what ever they are (NB not pigeons) - to try to stumble through your copious quantities of meaningless statistics, with no meaningful analysis or conclusions from you on them.

Now, you quote me - as above - and then ignore all the quote except the last query. Why? Why bother with the first paragraph? Is it because your trembling sonar buoy finger is unable to selectively quote? I would have preferred you to comment on the important bit, but never mind.

Moving on. As you know, Rainboe finally went mad and shot himself saving all the problem.

PS I prefer Whisky, but also don't mind G&T, but I am not normally imbibing at 14:10 (A), unlike, I suspect, some.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Moving on. As you know, Rainboe finally went mad and shot himself saving all the problem.

Metaphorically I presume?

Branch Covidians = cult = Branch Davidians I guess.

BM = a slick metaphorer (yes a new word I know).

BM, your fascination with Lieutenant pigeon isn't an Airship or Tesla like thing is it?