Racism

[boing]

It would seem obvious, but be careful, to assume that early man would evolve in the more beneficent parts of the world. Pleasant temperatures, vast amounts of food, low populations. What then drove people living under these conditions to trek into less friendly zones eventually including those exactly opposite in terms of an easy life?

It can hardly have been population pressure or shortage of resources or climate that forced a move. Perhaps it was a desire to get away from domination by the established local tribe and peoples moved only a relatively short distance per year but over 10s of 1000s of years this would be a considerable migration. Of course, if you left fertile parts of Africa but then came upon the Sahara of the Arabian Desert the incentive would be to keep moving along the usable routes finally ending up in Asia Minor.

Is it possible that the drive to make the move, the inventiveness required to do this successfully, the physical adaptability to survive, carried out a sort of accelerated reverse Darwinian selection process? The trekkers did not adapt physically to deal with the new conditions but only those with certain pre-existing qualities survived which is still natural selection but on a more brutal scale. I suggest the qualities must have been pre-existing since the time scale is too short to apply standard Darwinian evolution theory.

Perhaps the population of the World divided itself accidentally between those who enjoyed a fairly easy life requiring little innovation and those forced to innovate to survive.


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[G-CPTN]

That relatively stable (and so many varied) species evolved is way beyond comprehension.

What determined that a worm or a fly should exist?

[Undried Plum]

Is somebody suggesting that Africans are a different species?

[boing]

Probably because there was a void in the eco-system that was not occupied. The tiny crawling creature decided that he was fed up of being trampled by dinosaurs and nibbled by rats so he decided to live under the topsoil. If you live under the topsoil for long enough you don't need arms and legs, this gives you the ability to burrow more deeply - and bingo. Unless you are a dedicated creationist life's like that, give me a safe space to live in with food available and I'll take it.

Evolution is only a temporary benefit. Once the worm is living happily eating and reproducing it becomes a source of food and a version of a mouse develops long digging claws and becomes a mole. T'was ever thus.

Now humans are much more stupid, they reproduce beyond their capacity to survive and then kill each other for their space.

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[TheGreenGoblin]

Africans built great civilisations while honkeys were squatting in wattle & daub huts.

Moors and other African Moozlamic civilisations developed exquisite mathematics while Yoorpeens were ripping eachothers arms and legs off in a dispute over whether the Earth was flat with Rome at its centre.

Rome's most successful Emperor in terms of conquering Northern Britain wasn't Hadrian or Antononius, but an African Emperor of Rome.

+1

[TheGreenGoblin]

Now humans are much more stupid, they reproduce beyond their capacity to survive and then kill each other for their space.

True...

[boing]

No UP, it is simply that although the individuals of the "human" species are identical at a basic level we can expect slight modifications to take place to adapt to various different ways of life. We see this at a micro level in our own communities, traditionally a farm labourer will develop different physical ( and mental ) characteristics to an office bound attorney.

These are not great Earth shattering differences and in a homogeneous community they may be barely noticeable but they still occur as in some people are capable of being racing drivers and others can't be trusted with a bicycle. They will become more significant as the difficulty of the task demands higher training and specialisation since by natural gifts or prior experience some people are better at learning these skills and I think this is generally accepted by the community.

I would say the greatest problem is that in slaving days Africans with African adaptions were bought into a society with western adaptions and the result, because of the beliefs of the time, was unfortunate. Note I do not say that either culture was "wrong" I say they were different, different enough that the groups could not understand each other's thoughts. My next statement will commit me to the stake but I would suggest that because of the relatively short period (1865 to 2020, 250 years) involved and because the slaves were never given any effective help to adapt, we still live in a society with the two groups having very different thought processes and this is what results in the tension in our society. We simply do not think the same way and attempts by well meaning people to address this problem in the wrong way are likely to misfire. I would also guess that to a small extent tribal adaptions as opposed to generic African adaptions can be detected.

Just to clarify I do not think that African Americans are fundamentally different from "other" Americans but I do think there is still a large unresolved culture gap between the two groups. This is not a trivial culture gap as in what food is preferred but a much deeper gap that involves family relationships, male versus female responsibilities and group versus group.

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[PHXPhlyer]

Now humans are much more stupid, they reproduce beyond their capacity to survive and then kill each other for their space.

True...

Now it is a matter of efficiency, one way or the other.

PP

[John Hill]

This is not a trivial culture gap as in what food is preferred but a much deeper gap that involves family relationships, male versus female responsibilities and group versus group.

I expect this deeper gap is more a consequence of income level than skin colour.

[G-CPTN]

Have bicycles ever been popular in Africa?

[boing]

John,

The income gap is certainly there generally but for many years there have been high earning black people. How do you rationalise the fact that black Americans are absolutely dominant in US sport, even in the snooty world of golf, and they are paid enormous incomes? Do you not think that this is because powerful physical activity is one of the African residual traits which actually works to the black person's advantage? Why are black people so well represented in musical/vocal activities, could this not be a residual trait because many of these people have had no formal training? Why so many successful black boxers? In these fields where black Americans so far out perform white Americans it has to make you think that it can't be coincidence. Note that areas where the black population excel does not appear to be technical fields (with exceptions of course) but more body related activities.

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[John Hill]

How many of those high earning black people are being summarily executed by American police?

When Obama got to be POTUS he was subjected race based opposition from whites of the highest levels, why was that?

[boing]

A) As far as I know none despite the fact they have demonstrated high risk lifestyles, illegal firearms. drugs etc., but then I care sod all for them, their fame and their lifestyles.

B) Do you have specific examples of your claim of "race based" opposition? I doubt very much if anyone at "the highest levels" would openly criticise a black President as the black contingent does a white one.

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[prospector]

Instead of using Barrack Obama (Half black) , as examples of what can be done, as President of a multi racial country,(not forgetting the vast majority of his electors were white) why not use Robert Mugabe as a typical black president of a formerly white governed, multi racial, prosperous nation. And there are many others with the same background as examples.

" How many of those high earning black people are being summarily executed by American police?"

What unmitigated crap. Floyd, who was full of drugs including what was potentially lethal dose of Fentanyl,(enough to cause respiratory failure) and behind the wheel of a car, and with a lengthy rap sheet. He who started all this strife, Is he one of these high earning black people of whom you claim are being summarily executed??.

[John Hill]

Have bicycles ever been popular in Africa?

A few cyclists in Africa....

[TheGreenGoblin]

Bicycles are still critical to the transport of the poorer rural populace in South Africa.

[John Hill]

B) Do you have specific examples of your claim of "race based" opposition? I doubt very much if anyone at "the highest levels" would openly criticise a black President as the black contingent does a white one.

Trump and 'Birtherism'. Perhaps you have a short memory?

[John Hill]

Instead of using Barrack Obama (Half black) , as examples of what can be done, as President of a multi racial country,(not forgetting the vast majority of his electors were white) why not use Robert Mugabe as a typical black president of a formerly white governed, multi racial, prosperous nation. And there are many others with the same background as examples.

Better still use Adolf Hitler or 'Joe Stalin'

" How many of those high earning black people are being summarily executed by American police?"

What unmitigated crap. Floyd, who was full of drugs including what was potentially lethal dose of Fentanyl,(enough to cause respiratory failure) and behind the wheel of a car, and with a lengthy rap sheet. He who started all this strife, Is he one of these high earning black people of whom you claim are being summarily executed??.

Just what sort of trial did Floyd face before his execution? None, his was summary execution and had nothing to do with his income level.

[boing]

No John,

You have now raised birtherism which was never a part of your original claim. You said "when Obama got to be POTUS...".

When Obama got to be POTUS he was subjected race based opposition from whites of the highest levels, why was that?

"Birtherism" raises questions about someones ability to legally become President of the US due to the place/time/relationships of their birth it does not necessarily imply racism. The birther argument could equally have been used against my children since they were born in England of an American mother.

I do not remember anyone saying that Obama must be ineligible to become President because he was black and certainly not anyone at the highest levels (mainly because that would have been political suicide). Please give me a genuine response supporting your original claim.

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[TheGreenGoblin]

There is no question Obama, was entitled, through his place of birth, to serve as POTUS, and the whole birtherism load of crap, was part of a dog whistle campaign by offal like Trump, et al, to try and discredit him. Whether that was predicated on racism or some other malign intention is probably irrelevant in the pantheon of shame that surrounds such political low life.