Racism

[John Hill]

The claim that we are Rift Valley residents is beautifully poetic but about as accurate as claiming an elephant is a dinosaur, both are big with odd bits attached but there is absolutely no valid comparison after a hundred thousand years of evolution.

If you want to make a parallel and compare us with Rift Valley folks of long ago you should be comparing the elephant of today with the elephant of that same long ago time. Just let the dinosaurs be.

[boing]

GG

John and yourself have still to supply me with a verifiable racist attack by Trump on Obama, your credibility depends on it. Honestly, I would not be surprised if you found something that I am not aware of, with his attitude Trump may easily have said something out of line, you may prove me wrong which is OK. Very simply, forget the arguments about implied racism, it would not stand in a court of law, it's what is said and witnessed that matters. Come on, you have a thousand reasons to criticise Trump and you do so frequently so why are you so shy? Surely from the hundreds of gaffes that you say Trump has made he must have made at least one slip that indicated overt racism against Obama (and since the subject chosen by John is Obama this would need to be overt black racism).

If you can't supply that example, and with the all stuff he has churned out I would be surprised if it did not exist, all your grand comments are simply hot air.

Here is the worst thing the Huff Post could find which relates to Trump's attitude to Obama.

"He questioned whether President Obama was born in the United States."

That is the worst example that the famously anti-Trump publication can find? My how terribly and obviously racist, Trump actually wanted proof that Obama was a true US citizen before he took on arguably the most important job in the World. There seem to be a lot of people around who do not know the difference between race and nationality.

If you make the claim that Trump made a racist comment about Obama and you can't prove it what else is there that you say which we can believe.

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[TheGreenGoblin]

Boing I was apt to take you seriously but the fact that you appear intent on defending the Obama birther conspiracy theory is up there with those who try and use so-called reason to defend the Apollo 11 theories and so on. You are too intelligent a man for this kind of illogical, non-empirical thinking so I can only presume that you have an agenda, or maybe a blind spot. Have I misconstrued your intent?

I put it to you that Trump is an unmitigated racist... there is a lot of evidence for it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ts/588067/

[John Hill]

If you Boing are a Trump follower please feel free to believe whatever alternative facts meet your fancy.

[ian16th]

Bicycles are still critical to the transport of the poorer rural populace in South Africa.

Yep, I supplied 3 of them.

They were stolen from my son. One of them a very expensive one.

[boing]

GG,

The first point to clarify is that I am not a birther and I did not introduce that subject into this discussion. I have opined that if there is any doubt it is proper to confirm that an applicant for the job of President of the United States is qualified, I think that is a reasonable approach. This process can be a tiresome and frustrating exercise but it is not illegal or improper.

The second point is that I think Trump is a poor President based on his lack of gravitas although I think he is unfairly criticised on his actions (as opposed to his statements).

The third point is that I believe in the truth. If we cannot trust the supposed truths in our lives, in this case the truth of politically based claims, the whole exercise of selecting a national leader by ballot which we hold to be such a bright jewel in our culture is corrupted.

Hyperbole and inflated promises we expect from the contestants, the problem comes when we are deliberately fed a diet of propaganda of such volume and magnitude that it becomes the truth for the average man --- fake news cynically provided to effect the outcome of the election. I see John's claim that Trump made racist statements about Obama as one of those deliberate untruths which is why I am so insistent that John verify his claims.

Immediately above this post John says:

If you Boing are a Trump follower please feel free to believe whatever alternative facts meet your fancy.

No John, that is a typical cop-out of your ilk, it was not me that introduced the facts that need checking, it was you. You have made a statement that needs to be verified, that Trump has made racist remarks about Obama. That is the single subject of your claim, whether Trump made comments about his employees or Scottish golf courses is not relevant.You are the person originating potentially alternative facts, I am only the person responding not the originator. Once again, could you please supply a verifiable instance of Trump making racist remarks about Obama as you claim.

GG, you know full well that the exercise of electing a President in the US has become a media circus with a continuous flow of fake news, hit job reporting and distortion of headlines. Please understand that I firmly believe that the more gross distortions need to be challenged for the good of democracy. We only have our own little World on this forum but the people here are generally intelligent and although we can't do much to alter the big world outside we can surely get our own facts straight and by doing that perhaps influence others.

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[llondel]

The first point to clarify is that I am not a birther and I did not introduce that subject into this discussion. I have opined that if there is any doubt it is proper to confirm that an applicant for the job of President of the United States is qualified, I think that is a reasonable approach. This process can be a tiresome and frustrating exercise but it is not illegal or improper.

It's OK to ask the question once and have a proper response, I would almost expect it to be part of the process for getting on the ballot, to demonstrate eligibility. The problem is that too may people decided that the answer didn't accord with their beliefs and so chose to reject it and continue to claim that he was ineligible. No amount of proof would have satisfied them.

[TheGreenGoblin]

The first point to clarify is that I am not a birther and I did not introduce that subject into this discussion. I have opined that if there is any doubt it is proper to confirm that an applicant for the job of President of the United States is qualified, I think that is a reasonable approach. This process can be a tiresome and frustrating exercise but it is not illegal or improper.

It's OK to ask the question once and have a proper response, I would almost expect it to be part of the process for getting on the ballot, to demonstrate eligibility. The problem is that too may people decided that the answer didn't accord with their beliefs and so chose to reject it and continue to claim that he was ineligible. No amount of proof would have satisfied them.

Well and better put than I could have Sir.

+1

Sadly Trump and his cohort represent the nadir, as opposed to the apotheosis, of high minded democratic principles that boing alludes to in his post.

[larsssnowpharter]

The anti miscegenation laws, which made it illegal to marry or, in some cases, have sex with a person of another 'race', were in force in some states of the USA until 1967.

It was in the mid 70s that I met and fell for a beautiful black American girl, May. She looked a little like Whitney Houston but more athletic, lithe almost. She had used her athletic abilities to get to college and, eventually, became a lawyer and worked for a big law firm in DC.

She would joke that the firm got two gold stars for hiring her: one for her being a woman and the other for her being black.

She invited me to one of those corporate dinners at a big hotel. 600 people all patting each other on the back. I went in mess kit showing off a single GSM and she wore a stunning white evening dress.

As we entered, every eye in the room turned on us firstly because I was the only person in uniform and secondly because she was the most beautiful girl in the room.

The feeling being emanated was interesting. The men stared in lust, the women in hatred. The women especially would stare, cover their mouths, talk to a companion and stare back with narrowed eyes. The menfolk just tripped over their tongues.

We were seated at a table for eight. Apartheid was in force. The other couples all were either black or mixed. It was the only table with black people in the room.

In contrast, May came with me to a ladies guest night or summer ball, I forget, in the RAF. Again, she was stunning but was treated as the Lady she was.

Life went on and a trans Atlantic relationship proved impossible to maintain. We made contact about 10 years ago. She never married but became a successful corporate lawyer.

I am now married to a beautiful Filipina lady. It is strange to think that those racist laws, abolished in 1967, would have made our union illegal.

[boing]

Llondel,

You are correct. The matter of eligibility has changed from a reasonable verification to a political football. Perhaps "tiresome and frustrating" was too mild an expression but you see what I mean. Unfortunately such picky searches for technical exclusions has been introduced and the problem is getting worse. Soon I expect a candidate to be accused of having dirty fingernails.

On the other hand, past Presidential candidates have been quite obvious in their pedigree. With our present moves to "equalise" our society it may just be that we need to quietly vet candidates for eligibility in all areas of administration.

As you may be able to tell I am absolutely sick of this whole development of negativity in politics. Rarely now do we hear an independent balanced opinion on a politicians performance we just get this childish "he said, she said" of what is totally irrelevant information with the press choosing what they wish the population to hear.

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[boing]

Lars,

We tend to think that America is a nation, in reality as its full title suggests it is an amalgamation. The United States of America. The compromises needed to put together this union created many weird anomalies which can be quite funny to research.

Had you moved one State in any direction, preferably North, your problem may have gone away. I doubt if there is a law preventing "improperly" married persons living in one State from working in the original State. but you never know. Which State were you in? A lot of this stuff is hypocrisy, for example Utah used to be a "dry (no alcohol)" State for, apparently, religious reasons. Then the Salt Lake area started to complain that they were losing Ski tourist traffic because of the law so it mysteriously disappeared with restrictions on the locals only. I don't know what the situation is there now.

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[TheGreenGoblin]

Llondel,

You are correct. The matter of eligibility has changed from a reasonable verification to a political football. Perhaps "tiresome and frustrating" was too mild an expression but you see what I mean. Unfortunately such picky searches for technical exclusions has been introduced and the problem is getting worse. Soon I expect a candidate to be accused of having dirty fingernails.

On the other hand, past Presidential candidates have been quite obvious in their pedigree. With our present moves to "equalise" our society it may just be that we need to quietly vet candidates for eligibility in all areas of administration.

As you may be able to tell I am absolutely sick of this whole development of negativity in politics. Rarely now do we hear an independent balanced opinion on a politicians performance we just get this childish "he said, she said" of what is totally irrelevant information with the press choosing what they wish the population to hear.

.

Blaming the press (whatever their poltitical allegiance) and negating the truth is straight from the Trump (and Putin) playbook mind. In such environments are dictatorships born.

[larsssnowpharter]

Boing,

I'm not having a go at the USA. I'm just telling the story of my own experience of racism. I have a full magazine if others:

Some 15 years ago, Sproglette Senior was born in Qatar. A few weeks later, I went to register her birth at the British and Philippines embassies. No problems at the British Embassy.

However, at the Philippines Embassy, I had to answer the race question. No multiple choice allowed so I wrote 'HUMAN'.

The bastard clerk crossed this out and wrote 'MALAY'. This means that, officially, at least in the Philippines, I have a daughter of an ethnicity that includes Celt, Scandihooligan, Spanish, Chinese who is officially classified as Malay.

The original racial distinctions happened when scientists were trying to classify every living species on the planet. Someone chose to classify humans according to skin colour rather than hair colour or eye colour.

It's all crap. We are one race and, you know what, if we don't destroy the planet, in a few hundred years we'll all be brownish.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Boing,

It's all crap. We are one race and, you know what, if we don't destroy the planet, in a few hundred years we'll all be brownish.

+1

[larsssnowpharter]

Of course, this will result in an economic impact (negative) on those outfits involved in the sunbed and carcinoma industry as well as the pharma companies selling chlorine based 'skin whitening' products in the sub continent, Asia and sub Saharan Africa.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Of course, this will result in an economic impact (negative) on those outfits involved in the sunbed and carcinoma industry as well as the pharma companies selling chlorine based 'skin whitening' products in the sub continent, Asia and sub Saharan Africa.

It is preposterous, as you say. South Africa is full of white people lying in the sun to obtain the cachet of a good all round brown tan, while many of those with a darker skin are seeking to lighten their skin. We live in a mad, mad world.

[John Hill]

You have made a statement that needs to be verified, that Trump has made racist remarks about Obama. That is the single subject of your claim, whether Trump made comments about his employees or Scottish golf courses is not relevant.You are the person originating potentially alternative facts, I am only the person responding not the originator. Once again, could you please supply a verifiable instance of Trump making racist remarks about Obama as you claim.

Please refresh my memory, just where did I say Trump made racist remarks about Obama as you claim I did?

[boing]

John

Your first statement was:

When Obama got to be POTUS he was subjected race based opposition from whites of the highest levels, why was that?

In post #33 I then asked you give a specific example of your claim of race based opposition from whites at the highest levels expressing doubt that anyone at "high levels" would openly criticise a black President.

In post #37 you replied. "Trump and birtherism. Perhaps you have a short memory?"

Not that short John.

[John Hill]

Just as I thought, nothing about 'racist remarks'. Go back under your bridge.

[boing]

John,

Thank you for confirming that Trump has never made a racist remark about Obama, that ensures that you will now have to prove "raced based opposition" which is going to be much more difficult.

So, now you can tell me explicitly what race based opposition you are talking about. As we have pointed out before the whole birtherism example is invalid because as was made plain at the time it was an objection to possible place of birth irregularities, ie nationality, not to his race.

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