Climate Crisis!!!!

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AtomKraft
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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#441 Post by AtomKraft » Sat Nov 12, 2022 4:57 pm

Boac

I don't dispute the sources. just looking for a number on how much it's warmed since 2000.

Any luck?

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#442 Post by barkingmad » Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:00 am

‘Snow laughing matter, interesting to see the difference ‘twixt these 2 articles, from 3 years ago and now;

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/06/15/ ... ng-matter/ This one implies we’re all doomed, although apparently the Arctic ice sheet has been observed to be getting thicker on recent surveys.

Then we come to the argument that we need more nitrogen compounds flying around (NPI!) in order to feed the 8,000,000,000 hungry hominid mouths on spaceship Earth;

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/11/12/ ... d-climate/

So it’s either roast to death or starve to death but either way it’s a great sales pitch for the depopulation gang of Rockefeller, Kissinger, Gates, Stanley Johnson and our lovely friend Klaus Von KnobSchwab. Prizes offered by adding to this list any more names of would-be genocidal zealous warriors in their struggle to save the planet for us, sorry, for them... ~X(

Further to my posts on inaccurate surface temperature measurements, here’s a discussion on the topic and the interesting fact that many of the original measuring stations were in rural and ‘uncontaminated’ environments but over time have become subject to UHI by urban encroachment which is obviously a man-made phenomenon with the inevitable warming results;

https://everythingclimate.com/urban-hea ... l-warming/

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#443 Post by Boac » Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:52 pm

AK - was the link no good? Admitedly it only goes up to 2020. I have no later figures.

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#444 Post by TheGreenAnger » Sun Nov 13, 2022 1:46 pm

AtomKraft wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 4:57 pm
Boac

I don't dispute the sources. just looking for a number on how much it's warmed since 2000.

Any luck?
Fill your boots...

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/202209
My necessaries are embark'd: farewell. Adieu! I have too grieved a heart to take a tedious leave.

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#445 Post by AtomKraft » Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:13 pm

Thanks Boac, and Green A

I looked at the charts, which as you know are up and down like the proverbial tarts knickers. Sure, I can see it looks like it's kept on warming.

If it's all so obvious- just tell me how much it has warmed since 2000.

A number, would be good- a source for that number even better.

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#446 Post by Boac » Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:41 pm

I would have expected a Sky God to be able to read performance charts? (Slightly worried of Epsom) Can you honestly NOT find your needed number?

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#447 Post by barkingmad » Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:53 pm

Boac wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:41 pm
I would have expected a Sky God to be able to read performance charts? (Slightly worried of Epsom) Can you honestly NOT find your needed number?
F A O bo, please study this definition and then post something of higher standard without descending to such low levels?!

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... sh/sarcasm

Or maybe this will help drive the point home? https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm

You will recall banning me for a post back in August for allegedly attacking another member, queried at the time by Dushan but from you answer came there none and that exchange apparently resulted in the new member, to whom I was responding, never appearing again.

And then we wonder why the population of active members is reducing rather than increasing? ~X(

[-X :-?

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#448 Post by Boac » Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:24 pm

Your observation is noted, but I remain "worried of Epsom" in that poor AK cannot read a chart and extract a number. As a former pilot I am surprised and alarmed - are you not? Oh, and my remark did NOT "'clearly mean the opposite" of what I posted. (Your definition). It meant EXACTLY what I posted. Back to skool for you.
You will recall banning me for a post back in August for allegedly attacking another member, queried at the time by Dushan but from you answer came there none and that exchange apparently resulted in the new member, to whom I was responding, never appearing again.
Firstly you refer to admin2, I think? I have no recollection of what you are wittering on about. I have however searched your posts and can see nothing for August. I can see one for May where you apparently dropped your ice-lolly on the sand and got upset and were sent home to mummy for week for being unpleasant to admin2. (Bear in mind that offence can trigger 'the blade'.) Was that the dire event? If so
never appearing again
was complete hogwash - like a lot of your posts.

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#449 Post by AtomKraft » Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:07 am

Bo
I'm as capable as the next man of reading a graph, but the years differ so much that a degree of averaging is required, and when working to 1/100ths of a degree, I'm not confident of a correct answer.

If it's so easy, why don't you do it and let us know. I await your answer with interest- or anybodies.

If you want a chuckle, try finding the answer on Google or whatever- the only answer that comes is....

People also ask
How much has the earth's temperature increased since 2000?
The “pause” in global warming observed since 2000 followed a period of rapid acceleration in the late 20th century. Starting in the mid-1970s, global temperatures rose 0.5 °C over a period of 25 years. Since the turn of the century, however, the change in Earth's global mean surface temperature has been close to zero.
Top


It's one of those 'Google answers' that isn't a link to some other page- it's just a statement by Google.

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#450 Post by barkingmad » Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:23 am

AK, I may have the reason you are unable to decode the maelstrom of graphs and figures on temperatures, assuming those measurements are accurate and uncontaminated by UHI and other factors as previously discussed?

There may be some here in O-N who are brilliant, sharp and up to speed with the new 21st Century maths and can therefore source, analyse, comprehend and present the data for which you seek?

I suggest you (and me, ‘A’ level maths failed) enrol either for classroom or online education in this new exciting subject which will speed up the entire planet, but probably result in us all being flung off due to centrifugal...blah blah...you get the drift?

Despite in-depth protracted goggle searches I am unable to source any respectable institution which specialises in the new maths branch but it can only be a matter of time before the entrepreneurs set up their courses.

I refer to the brand spanking new maths, which is inexorably going to leech into mainstream education, being touted with such enthusiasm by its advocates;

https://dailysceptic.org/2022/11/13/bri ... knowledge/

I trust this gives you hope that your problem will be rapidly resolved, meantime I’m returning to my trusty abacus so’s I can reassure myself that 2 + 2 = 4 and not some other answer as our woke friends would have us believe? =))

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#451 Post by AtomKraft » Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:23 am

Thanks Barkers.
I'll need to work up to the new dumbing down- give me a few years.

Meantime- anybody got a NUMBER for the warming since c.1998?

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#452 Post by G-CPTN » Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:26 am

42 ?

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#453 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:59 am

The basic problem is that nobody in the climate game uses temperature numbers. The most common expression is of a changing temperature difference from an average.
Different actors use different sources of temperature data, then use a variety of different temperature correction algorithms, and they use different periods for the average, to derive a variable which is a temperature difference from that average.
There is no agreement on the sources, correction algorithms, or average period. Most will accept most as valid, but not necessarily the particular combination used, and everyone has a combination that they think is better than everybody else's. Furthermore, the correction algorithms are usually secret, bowdlerized as "commercially sensitive".

So, even if you do find a number, you will find everyone else has a different number.

The temperature difference change is the most important factor, since this is what is needed to show, or disprove, that anthropogenic effects are making a significant difference to the Earth's climate, and that changing human behaviour can make a difference, and that the change has some kind of urgency. So, this is why no one in the know gives a stuff about the actual average global temperature.

It's also because they have no idea what will actually happen when the Global Temperature hits, say, 17 degrees. And that is bound to be your next question after you get the current Global Temperature, and they don't want to admit they don't know. And that's both sides of the argument that don't know. They can neither prove nor disprove that the icecaps will melt or the Gulfstream will reverse or rice production will collapse when a particular temperature is hit.

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#454 Post by AtomKraft » Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:54 pm

I quite agree, Fox. It's not the temp, it's the temp difference over time that matters.

So what's the temp difference twixt 1998 and 2022?

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#455 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:40 pm

How many answers do you want?

If you take late-1998 to March 2022, using satellite data and a 2011-2022 average period, then the Global Temperature has dropped 0.2 degrees.

Using the same data, but from the start of 1998-March 2022, it's gone up 0.3 degrees.

1998 is an unfortunate choice since there was a very big El Nino that finished at the end of the year.

If you use the NASA/GISS data, it's gone up by 0.2 or 0.5 depending on how much smoothing you apply to the data

The CRU at UEA will tell you it's gone up 0.25, but they'll also tell you it hasn't changed at all for the last 5 years.

The IPCC report #6,, known as AR6, from 2021 will tell you it's gone up 0.3 degrees.
However, the IPCC report #1, from 1990, said that they were confident it would rise by 0.3 degree per decade, so it ought to have gone up by 0.7 degrees in the period.
See what I mean about how their models don't work? Even the bottom of their error range from 1990 predicted a 0.5 degree rise.

So, your answer is a decrease of 0.2 to a rise of 0.5 depending on which model you want to pick.

And because the IPCC predictions don't work, they have now switched to discussing everything in terms of the absolute rise since 1950, rather than a difference, because it makes it seem more dramatic.
And their Worst Case scenario, 8.5, predicts a 0.42 rise per decade, whereas their own observed rise is 0.109 per decade. This is known in technical terms as Scaremongering Bolleaux.
The conditions they assume for 8.5 are ridiculous, but it's useful because the line on the graph frightens the life out of nervous politicians whose science learning stopped at cutting up frogs.

All data in degree Celsius

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#456 Post by AtomKraft » Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:26 am

Well, 'hats off' to you Fox, for at least having a crack at what is clearly a little more complex than reading a graph.

Sounds to me to be as close to Sweet FA as makes no difference, and hardly the 'Crisis' or 'Emergency' we are being asked to worry about....endlessly.

My own view is that it's a shame that we are pissing away enormous resources on this, when that same money could be doing enormous good, tackling some of the more tangible problems that definitely exist- such as Famine, pestilence, Malaria etc.

Still, that's the world we live in.

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#457 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:10 am

We do not know if it's an emergency or not.
I'm not saying mankind isn't warming up the Earth. I'm saying the models that currently try to show it is don't work, and the data is awful, as is its manipulation.
We then have the problems of finding out if the world is really warming up, and if we're responsible, and if it's important. These will not be fast or cheap.
It's possible, but of unknown probability, that by the time we find out it may be "too late".
What constitutes "too late" is also highly dependent on viewpoint.
Sea level rises would mean everyone in Bangladesh is pretty much hosed.
People living in southern Canada will have global warming turn it into a paradise.

But almost nobody wants to hear the answer "I don't know" in response to every question they ask the people in charge about potential disasters, especially if it's true.
As we have just seen with Covid, which drastically affected almost everywhere - except small islands.

The fact that I am living on a small island in southern Canada will now be starting to seem more than coincidental to you.

People tend to demand that "Something Must Be Done!", so that's what governments do. Something.
Even if they haven't a clue what to do, or know for a fact the thing that's done won't make a difference, like mask mandates.
They just lie that it will. They lie a lot.

What I am sure of is that the way Governments are going about combatting the believed cause of global warming is almost wholly stupid, by its own reasoning.
For example, working from home is fantastic for combatting CO2 production, yet governments are desperate to stop it.
It makes a lot more sense if the real objective is to transfer money and power from ordinary people to the rich.
Which means governments are either stupid, or corrupt control freaks.

Or both.

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#458 Post by barkingmad » Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:33 am

Some more numbers to crunch here in the never-ending war of Project Fear Mk2;

https://dailysceptic.org/2022/11/14/cli ... -modeller/

From the article:-“Climate models are also at the heart of so-called ‘attribution’ attempts to link one-off weather events to long-term changes in the climate.....A hallmark of science is that conclusions get tested against observations, and that is virtually impossible for weather attribution studies. “It’s like a spiritual adviser who claims her influence helped you win the lottery – after you’ve already won it.”. :-?

And we all know where “modelling” got us nearly 3 years ago with Project Fear Mk1 and now the bad news, Imperial College London, home of the discredited Neil Ferguson and Patrick Vallance of UK SAGE fame are now dabbling in climatology like a couple of old widows pushing the planchette around at a spiritualist seance!

Admittedly the following presenter is connected with coal mining interests, but before the “factcheckers” climb onto the roof and start chucking slates at me, he is working from ice core sampling and geological HARD EVIDENCE as opposed to scarifying fearmongering speculation currently driving the official narrative;



Go in at 5mins into the vid and enjoy a refreshing takedown of the current political knickerwetting at the highest levels of guvvments, even daring to criticise the west’s education system corruption since the 1960s which is where the rot appeared to start. And it is a YouTube vid, not yet censored by TPTB, so there must be some truth in it.... =))

A typical attempt to discredit Plimer is this wild claim;

“Plimer asserts that more carbon dioxide is released annually from submerged marine volcanoes than from human activity. The U.S. Geological Survey has found that human activity produces at least 120 times as much carbon dioxide than volcanoes, annually.”

From which we must assume that the US Geological Survey has checked every single square mile/kilometre of the undersea floor to prove his assertion is wrong, though it is accepted we know more about the moon’s surface than we do about the goings-on in the depths of our oceans? ~X(

P S. A warning to O-N posters, the incredibly clever algorithms monitoring our language will change the word ‘fact checkers’, written as one word within quote marks, into what looks like a forbidden swear word! :-?

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#459 Post by admin2 » Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:51 am

factcheckers

Sorted for you. Most people wot speak English would write that as two words, but for you.................no expense spared

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#460 Post by barkingmad » Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:01 pm

admin2 wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:51 am
factcheckers

Sorted for you. Most people wot speak English would write that as two words, but for you.................no expense spared
Brill! A positive result, for which I thank you. And there was me blaming podgy mechanic’s fingers attempting to gently stroke and prod my iPad. ~X(

But it appears I’m not the only freak out on the loose who runs the 2 words together;

https://www.wordsense.eu/factchecker/

Sometimes those podgy fingers can’t find that elusive hyphen! =))

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