Climate Crisis!!!!

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#721 Post by prospector » Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:08 am

https://www.rt.com/news/580214-thunberg ... aign=Email

Just as well she has this climate protest going, cannot think of any other reason she would get any publicity :))

And another on the same bandwagon,.

https://www.rt.com/news/580215-us-clima ... ons-china/

""On the first point, it’s important to note that the US is by far the world’s leading historic emitter of greenhouse gases and it’s not even particularly close. America has produced around 400 billion tonnes of CO2 since 1751, enough to account for 25% of all anthropogenic emissions globally — and double China’s share. This fact alone, coupled with the fact that China, with a far larger population and industrial base, produces half as much CO2 per capita, demonstrates that the US bears a unique responsibility towards poorer countries.""

How could anyone assess, even to the nearest billion tons, the anthropogenic emmissions of any country over some 450 years?

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#722 Post by Pinky the pilot » Tue Jul 25, 2023 5:02 am

I can still remember being told by one of my Science Teachers at Secondary School many years ago that the more CO2 in the atmosphere, the faster that plants,trees etc grew!

Why is there never any mention of that? :-\
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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#723 Post by John Hill » Tue Jul 25, 2023 9:05 am

Pinky the pilot wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2023 5:02 am
Why is there never any mention of that? :-\
There is plenty of mention of the effects of increased CO2 levels on plant growth, you just need to look for it.
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Decision time.

#724 Post by Boac » Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:25 pm

So, in the Blue corner we have a significant gathering of leading (presumably qualified) climate scientists who are saying that the extreme heat in Southern Europe has been significantly aggravated by human atmospheric pollution, and in the Red corner we have BM (unqualified) and his library of internet videos telling us that these 'extreme temperatures' are not meaningful and are probably caused by his favourite 'UHIs' (one of which can lower temperatures, it seems.)

Do we actually have time to fart around 'denying' climate change and portraying it as a great conspiracy theory?

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#725 Post by PHXPhlyer » Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:31 pm

Like a hot tub: Water temperatures off Florida soar over 100 degrees, stunning experts
On Monday, a buoy near Manatee Bay recorded an astounding 101.1 degree water temperature, a temperature common for hot tubs.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/weather/ho ... -rcna96163
On Monday, as much of the country stewed in bubbling heat, a boiling milestone was hit — a buoy in Florida registered a jaw-dropping 101.1 degrees Fahrenheit water temperature.

This was on the heels of the same buoy in Manatee Bay registering 100.2 degrees on Sunday. For perspective, the average hot tub temperature is 100-102 degrees F.

While the readings would've been considered a possible outlier or sensor error, surrounding buoys recorded similarly high temperatures, with 99.3 F at Murray Key and 98.4 F at Johnson Key.

Another reason why these water temperature readings are being taken seriously is the fact that experts have been tracking the exceptionally warm water temperature readings that have ranged from 92-97 degrees since early July.

For the majority of the month, an unusual weather pattern for the summer months for the region has been the driving factor. That pattern has featured a stagnant set-up fueled by a strong area of high pressure that has led to days of above average, and in many cases, record-setting air temperatures.

The pattern has also led to weaker than average trade winds. Trade winds usually produce southeast winds and a sea breeze for south Florida, which helps to keep the sea surface temperatures in check. Instead, winds have been out of the west and weak, allowing sea surface temperatures to heat up.

Still, despite a month of record-setting water temperatures already in the history books, Sunday and Monday's 100-degree water temperature reading stunned experts.

Factors that could have played a role in spiking the water temperature above 100 degrees include:

Air temperatures in the mid-to-upper 90s.
Weak winds across the region of less than 10 mph.
Strong sunlight hitting shallow water, which heats up faster than deep water.
Silty water leading to darker color, causing more absorption of sunlight and additional heating. Think of clear water vs. murky water as being similar to cement vs. asphalt. The darker the color, the more absorption and hotter the temperatures.
The water temperatures recorded Sunday and Monday would challenge the record for hottest sea surface temperature in the world. While official world water temperature records aren't kept, a 99.7 degree temperature recorded in Kuwait Bay is considered the world record at this time. Due to factors like proximity to land and the silty nature of the water, the temperatures recorded off Florida would have to go through an extensive verification process.

According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), ocean warming since 1991 doubles the size of the marine heat wave forecasted for September 2023.

According to the experimental forecast issued in June, 50 percent of the global oceans could experience heat wave conditions by September.

The forecast system also estimates how large and intense heat waves are without global warming’s influence on the ocean over the past three decades. Without the warming effect, the models predict that only 25 percent of the global ocean will be affected by heat waves in September.


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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#726 Post by prospector » Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:52 pm

""Do we actually have time to fart around 'denying' climate change and portraying it as a great conspiracy theory?""

There is obviously some sort of climate change, but the dispute would appear to be what is causing said climate change. Looking to the climate change over many hundreds of years, it is obvious that the climate has been changing over a very long time, what the effect of CO2 has on the climate is what the dispute is over, and there certainly was very little CO2 polluting the atmosphere thousands of years ago, and yet there was still massive climate changes. The climate modelling that is now the in thing is like many so called modelling exercises, shown to be completely wrong on many counts, the foretold events have simply not happened. Take the utterances of Al Gore on climate change, based on modelling, complete garbage.

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#727 Post by Boac » Tue Jul 25, 2023 8:07 pm

There is obviously some sort of climate change :-bd

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Re: Decision time.

#728 Post by Dushan » Tue Jul 25, 2023 9:52 pm

Boac wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:25 pm
So, in the Blue corner we have a significant gathering of leading (presumably qualified) climate scientists who are saying that the extreme heat in Southern Europe has been significantly aggravated by human atmospheric pollution, and in the Red corner we have BM (unqualified) and his library of internet videos telling us that these 'extreme temperatures' are not meaningful and are probably caused by his favourite 'UHIs' (one of which can lower temperatures, it seems.)

Do we actually have time to fart around 'denying' climate change and portraying it as a great conspiracy theory?
Count me in BM's corner. Climate is changing. Always has been, always will be. We have nothing to do with it. It is just a natural cycle. It gets colder, it gets hotter... Deal with it. It's been changing a lot longer than we have been around and will continue to do so. If anyone thinks that they can stop it they are delusional.
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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#729 Post by Pinky the pilot » Tue Jul 25, 2023 11:53 pm

There is plenty of mention of the effects of increased CO2 levels on plant growth, you just need to look for it.
Thanks John.

Dushan; +1
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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#730 Post by PHXPhlyer » Wed Jul 26, 2023 1:04 am

A crucial system of ocean currents is heading for a collapse that ‘would affect every person on the planet’

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/25/world/gu ... index.html

A vital system of ocean currents could collapse within a few decades if the world continues to pump out planet-heating pollution, scientists are warning – an event that would be catastrophic for global weather and “affect every person on the planet.”

A new study published Tuesday in the journal Nature, found that the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Current – of which the Gulf Stream is a part – could collapse around the middle of the century, or even as early as 2025.

Scientists uninvolved with this study told CNN the exact tipping point for the critical system is uncertain, and that measurements of the currents have so far showed little trend or change. But they agreed these results are alarming and provide new evidence that the tipping point could occur sooner than previously thought.

The AMOC is a complex tangle of currents that works like a giant global conveyor belt. It transports warm water from the tropics toward the North Atlantic, where the water cools, becomes saltier and sinks deep into the ocean, before spreading southwards.

Global heat in 'uncharted territory' as scientists warn 2023 could be the hottest year on record
It plays a crucial role in the climate system, helping regulate global weather patterns. Its collapse would have enormous implications, including much more extreme winters and sea level rises affecting parts of Europe and the US, and a shifting of the monsoon in the tropics.

For years, scientists have been warning of its instability as the climate crisis accelerates, threatening to upset the balance of temperature and salinity on which the strength of these currents depend.

As the oceans heat up and ice melts, more freshwater flows into the ocean and reduces the water’s density, making it less able to sink. When waters become too fresh, too warm or both, the conveyor belt stops.

It has happened before. More than 12,000 years ago, rapid glacier melt caused the AMOC to shut down, leading to huge Northern Hemisphere temperature fluctuations of 10 to 15 degrees Celsius (18 to 27 Fahrenheit) within a decade.

A shutdown “would affect every person on the planet – it’s that big and important,” said Peter de Menocal, the president of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, who was not involved in the study.

A 2019 report by the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change predicted that the AMOC would weaken over this century, but that its full collapse before 2100 was unlikely.

This new study comes to a much more alarming conclusion.

As the AMOC has only been continuously monitored since 2004, the study authors looked to a much larger dataset, and one which could show how the currents behaved in a period without human-caused climate change.

“We needed to go back in time,” said Peter Ditlevsen, a professor of climate physics at the University of Copenhagen and one of the authors of the report. The scientists analyzed sea surface temperatures in the North Atlantic in an area south of Greenland over a period of 150 years between 1870 and 2020.

This part of the ocean is warmed by the water transported north from the tropics by the AMOC, Ditlevsen said, “so if it cools, it’s because the AMOC is weakening.” The authors then subtracted the impacts of human-caused global warming on the water temperature to understand how the currents were changing.

They found “early warning signals” of critical changes in the AMOC, which led them to predict “with high confidence” that it could shut down or collapse as early as 2025 and no later than 2095. The likeliest point of collapse is somewhere between 2039 and 2070, Ditlevsen said.

“It’s really scary,” he told CNN. “This is not something you would lightly put into papers,” he said, adding, “we’re very confident that this is a robust result.”

De Menocal said the study results were “both surprising and alarming.”

It’s been clear for a while that the AMOC will weaken in the coming decades, he told CNN. In 2021, a study found the AMOC was showing signs of instability due to climate change.

But until now, we haven’t had a time frame.

The new study “provides a novel analysis that focuses on when the AMOC tipping point will occur,” de Menocal said, and the study’s prediction the collapse will occur around 2050 “is alarmingly soon given the globally disruptive impact of such an event.” Although, he added, it is important to note that there is no observational evidence yet that the AMOC is collapsing.

Stefan Rahmstorf, professor of physics of the oceans at the University of Potsdam in Germany, who was also not involved in the study, said the research helps bolster previous research.

“There is still large uncertainty where the tipping point of the AMOC is, but the new study adds to the evidence that it is much closer than we thought just a few years ago,” he told CNN. “The scientific evidence now is that we can’t even rule out crossing a tipping point already in the next decade or two.”

The report calls for fast and effective measures to cut planet-heating pollution to zero, to reduce global temperatures and slow melting in the Arctic.

“The key point of this study is that we don’t have much time at all to do this,” de Menocal said. “And the stakes just got higher.”

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#731 Post by barkingmad » Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:53 am

Remember this if you’re old enough;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ptics.html

It doesn’t help the “Climate Emergency” case when their data is regularly demonstrated to be erroneous or even fiddled to attempt to prove their thesis.

Just like the Plandemic, there are dark forces out there with an agenda which invariably involves money, more money, as it’s driving force.

And now the Oirish take on the “World on Fire, We’re All Doomed” current box-office success;

https://odysee.com/@IvorCummins:f/ivor- ... -word-on:7 =))

FACT: It is currently summer (remember those balmy days?) in the Northern hemisphere.

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#732 Post by John Hill » Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:20 am

barkingmad wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:53 am
It doesn’t help the “Climate Emergency” case when their data is regularly demonstrated to be erroneous or even fiddled to attempt to prove their thesis.
It the erroneous data is so prevalent you must be able to point to some, several examples even?
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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#733 Post by Boac » Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:26 am

Dushan wrote:Climate is changing. Always has been, always will be. We have nothing to do with it. It is just a natural cycle. It gets colder, it gets hotter... Deal with it. It's been changing a lot longer than we have been around and will continue to do so.
I quite agree with all of that, but would add that it would benefit life on earth if the levels of man-made pollution were reduced. You only need to see the dirty 'sky' in pictures of some countries to see the problem.

Of course there are those with 'agendas - on both sides - and on both sides 'facts' are manipulated to serve those agendas. For example, in my opinion the pollution 'balance sheet' for electric vehicles (as an example) is highly questionable and I suspect that 'initiative' is strongly driven by vested interests, but for that reason I doubt the true 'balance sheet' will ever be available to peruse.

None of the above removes the need for calm and concerted thinking and planning to cope with the change in climate. It is good to see that it appears there are no 'deniers' here. There were. The climate is changing adversely - for whatever reason/s. Twittering on about he said/she said is not achieving that. I see very little of such thinking in this topic, only 'drama'.

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#734 Post by barkingmad » Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:10 am

John Hill wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:20 am
barkingmad wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:53 am
It doesn’t help the “Climate Emergency” case when their data is regularly demonstrated to be erroneous or even fiddled to attempt to prove their thesis.
It the erroneous data is so prevalent you must be able to point to some, several examples even?
I have done so slready in this thread. ~X(

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#735 Post by John Hill » Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:18 pm

Do you expect me to read all that? =))
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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#736 Post by bob2s » Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:37 pm

The following from the Australian Bureau of Meteorology gives an idea as to climate change over the last 110 years, this seems to indicate that we
are now on a downward trend in recorded temp.


http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/history/temperature/

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#737 Post by OFSO » Thu Jul 27, 2023 1:21 pm

80% of the click bait on my phone says that we are headed for vastly higher temperatures and will all burn to death, more or less. The other 20% says that we are heading for the collapse of the Gulf Stream in as little as two years and will freeze/starve to death. So that's all right, then...

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#738 Post by Boac » Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:21 pm

I trust your clicking digit is still?

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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#739 Post by Dushan » Thu Jul 27, 2023 4:01 pm

Boac wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:26 am
Dushan wrote:Climate is changing. Always has been, always will be. We have nothing to do with it. It is just a natural cycle. It gets colder, it gets hotter... Deal with it. It's been changing a lot longer than we have been around and will continue to do so.
I quite agree with all of that, but would add that it would benefit life on earth if the levels of man-made pollution were reduced. You only need to see the dirty 'sky' in pictures of some countries to see the problem.

Pollution is a completely different matter. Nothing to do with climate changing. Pollution is man-made but does not cause climate change. Those who tie these two and somehow try to extrapolate that since pollution is man-made - pollution causes climate change - climate change is man-made are either stupid or disingenuous with an agenda.

Sadly we produce too much pollution, specifically in the form of garbage a lot of which end up in landfills and in the water. We have managed to control air pollution rater well.
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Re: Climate Crisis!!!!

#740 Post by Boac » Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:05 pm

Dushan wrote:Those who tie these two and somehow try to extrapolate that since pollution is man-made - pollution causes climate change - climate change is man-made are either stupid or disingenuous with an agenda.
I trust you are not suggesting I had done so? I said
but would add that it would benefit life on earth if the levels of man-made pollution were reduced. You only need to see the dirty 'sky' in pictures of some countries to see the problem.
Referring, obviously, to atmospheric pollution in particular, and I assume you would agree with that?

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