Another war won..

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John Hill
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Another war won..

#1 Post by John Hill » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:26 am

Biden has announced the US military will leave Afghanistan in September...

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/14/poli ... index.html


To quote George David Aiken....
"The United States could well declare unilaterally ... that we have 'won' in the sense that our armed forces are in control of most of the field and no potential enemy is in a position to establish its authority over South Vietnam," and that such a declaration "would herald the resumption of political warfare as the dominant theme in Vietnam."
He added: "It may be a far-fetched proposal, but nothing else has worked."
....it was another tune but the lyrics are so similar.
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Re: Another war won..

#2 Post by OFSO » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:34 am

Yet another nation leaves the hills and valleys of Afghanistan having achieved bugger-all except to leave their dead there, metaphorically speaking. None, however, achieved the levels of disaster achieved by Lord Elphinstone.

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Re: Another war won..

#3 Post by AtomKraft » Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:58 am

Declare Victory!

And leave....

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Re: Another war won..

#4 Post by 4mastacker » Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:21 am

Was it bloody worth it??
It's always my fault - SWMBO

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Re: Another war won..

#5 Post by John Hill » Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:32 am

4mastacker wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:21 am
Was it bloody worth it??
I imagine a lot of money changed hands.
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Re: Another war won..

#6 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:37 am

OFSO wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:34 am
Yet another nation leaves the hills and valleys of Afghanistan having achieved bugger-all except to leave their dead there, metaphorically speaking. None, however, achieved the levels of disaster achieved by Lord Elphinstone.
The Young British Soldier

WHEN the 'arf-made recruity goes out to the East
'E acts like a babe an' 'e drinks like a beast,
An' 'e wonders because 'e is frequent deceased
Ere 'e's fit for to serve as a soldier.
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
So-oldier of the Queen!

Now all you recruities what's drafted to-day,
You shut up your rag-box an' 'ark to my lay,
An' I'll sing you a soldier as far as I may:
A soldier what's fit for a soldier.
Fit, fit, fit for a soldier . . .

First mind you steer clear o' the grog-sellers' huts,
For they sell you Fixed Bay'nets that rots out your guts -
Ay, drink that 'ud eat the live steel from your butts -
An' it's bad for the young British soldier.
Bad, bad, bad for the soldier . . .

When the cholera comes - as it will past a doubt -
Keep out of the wet and don't go on the shout,
For the sickness gets in as the liquor dies out,
An' it crumples the young British soldier.
Crum-, crum-, crumples the soldier . . .

But the worst o' your foes is the sun over'ead:
You must wear your 'elmet for all that is said:
If 'e finds you uncovered 'e'll knock you down dead,
An' you'll die like a fool of a soldier.
Fool, fool, fool of a soldier . . .

If you're cast for fatigue by a sergeant unkind,
Don't grouse like a woman nor crack on nor blind;
Be handy and civil, and then you will find
That it's beer for the young British soldier.
Beer, beer, beer for the soldier . . .

Now, if you must marry, take care she is old -
A troop-sergeant's widow's the nicest I'm told,
For beauty won't help if your rations is cold,
Nor love ain't enough for a soldier.
'Nough, 'nough, 'nough for a soldier . . .

If the wife should go wrong with a comrade, be loath
To shoot when you catch 'em - you'll swing, on my oath! -
Make 'im take 'er and keep 'er: that's Hell for them both,
An' you're shut o' the curse of a soldier.
Curse, curse, curse of a soldier . . .

When first under fire an' you're wishful to duck,
Don't look nor take 'eed at the man that is struck,
Be thankful you're livin', and trust to your luck
And march to your front like a soldier.
Front, front, front like a soldier . . .

When 'arf of your bullets fly wide in the ditch,
Don't call your Martini a cross-eyed old bitch;
She's human as you are - you treat her as sich,
An' she'll fight for the young British soldier.
Fight, fight, fight for the soldier . . .

When shakin' their bustles like ladies so fine,
The guns o' the enemy wheel into line,
Shoot low at the limbers an' don't mind the shine,
For noise never startles the soldier.
Start-, start-, startles the soldier . . .

If your officer's dead and the sergeants look white,
Remember it's ruin to run from a fight:
So take open order, lie down, and sit tight,
And wait for supports like a soldier.
Wait, wait, wait like a soldier . . .

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier of the Queen!
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

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Re: Another war won..

#7 Post by Pinky the pilot » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:24 am

One of my Friends here in Waikerie SA served in the Aussie Army for 20 years and did his share in that place.

His answer is "NO BLOODY WAY!!" X(
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Re: Another war won..

#8 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:40 pm

OFSO wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:34 am
Yet another nation leaves the hills and valleys of Afghanistan having achieved bugger-all except to leave their dead there, metaphorically speaking. None, however, achieved the levels of disaster achieved by Lord Elphinstone.

Surely you meant Major-General William George Keith Elphinstone and not one of the Lords Elphinstone, two of whom who did scurry about India a bit, but did nothing to sully their family name in Afghanistan to my knowledge?

https://www.britishbattles.com/first-af ... -gandamak/

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You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
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Re: Another war won..

#9 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:57 pm

The late historical fiction writer, George McDonald Frasier, through the mouth of his creation, that incomparable rascal Harry Paget Flashman, sums up Elphinstone’s contribution to what followed thus:

“Let me say that when I talk of disasters I speak with authority. I have served at Balaclava, Cawnpore, and Little Big Horn. Name the biggest born fools who wore uniform in the nineteenth-century – Cardigan, Sale, Custer, Raglan, Lucan – I knew them all. Think of all the conceivable misfortunes that can arise from combinations of folly, cowardice and sheer bad luck, and I’ll give you chapter and verse. But I still state unhesitatingly that for pure, vacillating stupidity, for superb incompetence to command, for ignorance combined with bad judgment – in short, for the true talent for catastrophe – Elphy Bey stood alone. Others abide our question, but Elphy outshines them all as the greatest military idiot of our own or any other day.“Only he could have permitted the First Afghan War (to spiral out of control) and let it develop to such a ruinous defeat. It was not easy: he started with a good army, a secure position, some excellent officers, a disorganized enemy, and repeated opportunities to save the situation. But Elphy, with the touch of true genius, swept aside these obstacles with unerring precision; and managing to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, wrought out of order complete chaos. We shall not, with luck, look upon his like again.”

An excellent assessment of the incompetent General Lord Elphinstone!
https://deadliestblogpage.wordpress.com ... r-debacle/

Maintains he was a Lord? Frasier leads us astray methinks! Elphinstone was a Companion of the Order of the Bath but not a Lord.

This is as close as he came to being a Lord!
​ELPHINSTONE, WILLIAM GEORGE KEITH (1782–1842), major-general, was the elder son of the Hon, William Fullarton Elphinstone, a director of the East India Company, and formerly captain of one of the company's ships, who was himself third son of John, tenth lord Elphinstone, and elder brother of Admiral Lord Keith
.

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Your destination remains
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Re: Another war won..

#10 Post by Undried Plum » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:54 pm

Going in to Afghanistan is easy. The hard part is leaving the fukkn place.


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Re: Another war won..

#11 Post by Pontius Navigator » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:01 pm

My daughter had one tour there, the other son in law had two. He enjoyed the second in the embassy in Kabul.

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Re: Another war won..

#12 Post by OFSO » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:36 pm

Elphey Bey was one of the very few Generals ever to be not just condemned as utterly incompetent after he died, but while he was in command. He was responsible for the deaths of an estimated 14,000 military and campfollowers, surrendered himself to the Afghanis, and died in captivity. There could not have been a worst person to have been put in command of the garrison at Kabul. And in view of some of the idiots England promoted, that's saying something.

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Re: Another war won..

#13 Post by John Hill » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:33 pm

I was there a few times, Kabul and J'bad mostly. No embassies in those days and the Teleban were in total control. Things were different on later trips there.
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Re: Another war won..

#14 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:38 am

John Hill wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:33 pm
I was there a few times, Kabul and J'bad mostly. No embassies in those days and the Teleban were in total control. Things were different on later trips there.
I went to, what I laughingly called, the Mujahideen's, tea party way back in the 80's, an evening of food and politics hosted by a group of Afghani's, some exiles, antagonistic to the Soviets, here in the UK back in the 80's, and who were openly courted by the powers that be in the UK. Almost all of them went back to Afghanistan, and no doubt are regarded as the enemy today, if they are even alive! Realpolitik, or just naivety on part of the West. One woulda thunk that the British might have known a thing or two about how things work in that neck of the woods, but no, it seems every generation forgets the lessons of its grandfathers, and thus we are doomed to perpetuate the same mistakes, all over, again and again, in perpetuum! The English bloke I went with was doing his PhD on the military there and operated with the guerilla's. I lost track of him in the sands of time as I lost my ardour for such matters, fell in love with mammon and even went to work for the Great Satan... =))
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Re: Another war won..

#15 Post by OFSO » Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:16 am

History is bunk - who said that? One of the Fords?

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Re: Another war won..

#16 Post by John Hill » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:17 am

Read this story...

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/w ... 9699899c98

I have a bit more I can add to it.
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Re: Another war won..

#17 Post by Pontius Navigator » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:03 am

Went to a lecture by Sandy Gail back in the 70s after his experiences with the Mujahadeen. Fascinating story and classic enemy of my enemy case.

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Re: Another war won..

#18 Post by Woody » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:11 am

When all else fails, read the instructions.

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Re: Another war won..

#19 Post by John Hill » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:28 am

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:03 am
Went to a lecture by Sandy Gail back in the 70s after his experiences with the Mujahadeen. Fascinating story and classic enemy of my enemy case.

Who is Sandy Gail and which Mujahadeen were those?
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Re: Another war won..

#20 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:59 am

John Hill wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:28 am
Pontius Navigator wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:03 am
Went to a lecture by Sandy Gail back in the 70s after his experiences with the Mujahadeen. Fascinating story and classic enemy of my enemy case.

Who is Sandy Gail and which Mujahadeen were those?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Gall (I am guessing... suspecting a typo).

sandygall.JPG
sandygall.JPG (45.58 KiB) Viewed 935 times
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Books-Sandy-Ga ... Sandy+Gall
Though you remain
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"To be alive
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