Afghanistan (where the war is over)

[TheGreenGoblin]

Farmers are paid in advance for their crop by 'agents' of parties in countries such as Tk'stan, Uz'stan and Tj'stan. They must grow the crop and deliver the harvest to pay the debt.

So if the well meaning foreigners come and destroy the crop things get very serious for the farmer who is left with a debt he can never pay.

Somewhat of a generalisation but there you go.

Yup that generalisation is basically true... As you imply, it was a misunderstanding of the internal dynamic of that market by the West that simply made things worse and actually bolstered the trade.

As it was, the aim of erradicating the opium trade was a post hoc rationalisation for an intervention that was failing and that had no rational basis in the first place. As ever the over simplification of the conflict into good guys versus bad guys was going to lead to some supendous strategic blunders. That is not to say that the Taliban are "nice guys!". They are not!

[John Hill]

As you imply, it was a misunderstanding of the internal dynamic of that market by the West that simply made things worse and actaully bolstered the trade.

When in Afghanistan I found it quite difficult to get a good handle on things and trying too hard to think things through seemed to be dangerous.

[John Hill]

That is not to say that the Taliban are "nice guys!. They are not!

That depends on who you want to compare them with and do not forget that their arrival on the scene back in '94 (or so) was originally welcomed by a lot of Afghans. Of course there are other members on this site who have much better knowledge of Telebs than I and we can expect useful contributions from them.

[FD2]

How do devout Muslims regard fellow Muslims who are addicted to opium? Is it as much of a sin as alcohol?

[TheGreenGoblin]

As you imply, it was a misunderstanding of the internal dynamic of that market by the West that simply made things worse and actaully bolstered the trade.

When in Afghanistan I found it quite difficult to get a good handle on things and trying too hard to think things through seemed to be dangerous.

It is as you say, an extraodinarily complex place, even for the hardened hasheesh buyer and carpet smuggler!

[John Hill]

It may be like alcohol which is not a 'sin' in Islam but drunk'ness is.

[John Hill]

As you imply, it was a misunderstanding of the internal dynamic of that market by the West that simply made things worse and actaully bolstered the trade.

When in Afghanistan I found it quite difficult to get a good handle on things and trying too hard to think things through seemed to be dangerous.

It is as you say, an extraodinarily complex place, even for the hardened haseesh buyer and carpet smuggler!

I warn you to be careful with some of those carpets for sale in the bazaars as they are actually woven in Belgium!

[TheGreenGoblin]

That is not to say that the Taliban are "nice guys!. They are not!

That depends on who you want to compare them with and do not forget that their arrival on the scene back in '94 (or so) was originally welcomed by a lot of Afghans. Of course there are other members on this site who have much better knowledge of Telebs than I and we can expect useful contributions from them.

Remind me tell to my tale of the mujahideen tea party (remember them?) over a beer, hopefully in NZ, some day, preferably, sooner, rather than later!

[TheGreenGoblin]

When in Afghanistan I found it quite difficult to get a good handle on things and trying too hard to think things through seemed to be dangerous.

It is as you say, an extraodinarily complex place, even for the hardened haseesh buyer and carpet smuggler!

I warn you to be careful with some of those carpets for sale in the bazaars as they are actually woven in Belgium!

Shhh! Don't tell people that!

[OFSO]

So if there was no demand for opium from those northern countries the Afghanis would stop growing it..... And grow what? for export. Alternative crops have been tried, with little success.

[TheGreenGoblin]

So if there was no demand for opium from those northern countries the Afghanis would stop growing it..... And grow what? for export. Alternative crops have been tried, with little success.

Opium is very high value crop, with a large market, easily cultivated and hidden in plain sight. Almost perfect under the circumstances and whose cultivation was imperative to many given the history and economics of many parts of the region. What were the poor indebted peasantry to do, when the kind western alliance proscribed the crop, starve?

[Alisoncc]

What is currently happening is strongly reminiscent of the last days of Saigon. Have the septics and their "allies" actually had any outright wins in between that have lasted through their departure?

[Pontius Navigator]

John, sparring aside, what is it that takes you to places like Korea and Afghanistan?

[bob2s]

So if there was no demand for opium from those northern countries the Afghanis would stop growing it..... And grow what? for export. Alternative crops have been tried, with little success.

OFSO,I don't think the demand is the problem,more likely the reward for growing opium beats the hell out of growing carrots and cabbages.

[TheGreenGoblin]

So if there was no demand for opium from those northern countries the Afghanis would stop growing it..... And grow what? for export. Alternative crops have been tried, with little success.

OFSO,I don't think the demand is the problem,more likely the reward for growing opium beats the hell out of growing carrots and cabbages.

+1

[John Hill]

John, sparring aside, what is it that takes you to places like Korea and Afghanistan?

It may be that some aviators never spare a moment to wonder how communications and navaid facilities are available in the darker corners of the world but really there is an explanation.

Countries send representatives to ICAO meetings and conferences to decide on Standards And Recommended Practices (SARPs) for matters concerning the world of civil aviation. The commercial airlines of the world are members of IATA where they decide such matters as to what level of compliance with SARPs must be available for civil aviation to operate. Simple enough although complications can arise.

Wars and such upheaval will destroy those facilities but when the smoke clears it is necessary for someone to go and fix things before civil aviation can play it's part in the post war recovery.

Sometimes it was just a matter of opening the cartons and plugging stuff in but other times we may have had to repair or renovate the buildings, train local engineers, install power systems, dig holes and pour concrete. Of course there was software to be written (sometimes from scratch) and configured, data to be collected, air routes to be defined, communications networks to be hooked up to the neighbors, etc etc.

[TheGreenGoblin]

John, sparring aside, what is it that takes you to places like Korea and Afghanistan?

It may be that some aviators never spare a moment to wonder how communications and navaid facilities are available in the darker corners of the world but really there is an explanation.

Countries send representatives to ICAO meetings and conferences to decide on Standards And Recommended Practices (SARPs) for matters concerning the world of civil aviation. The commercial airlines of the world are members of IATA where they decide such matters as to what level of compliance with SARPs must be available for civil aviation to operate. Simple enough although complications can arise.

Wars and such upheaval will destroy those facilities but when the smoke clears it is necessary for someone to go and fix things before civil aviation can play it's part in the post war recovery.

Sometimes it was just a matter or opening the cartons and plugging stuff in but other times we may have had to repair or renovate the buildings, train local engineers, install power systems, dig holes and pour concrete. Of course there was software to be written (sometimes from scratch) and configured, data to be collected, air routes to be defined, communications networks to be hooked up to the neighbors, etc etc.

And to think I had you tagged, as a gun runner, cartel fixer and double agent playing all sides off against each other John, using the dark arts, as you do here, to confound your opponents!

[John Hill]

In many cases gun running would have been easier than dealing with some of the players that might have been found while the smoke had not yet completely cleared.

[Woody]

Bit of recommended reading on the history of British involvement in Afghanistan is The Return of the King by William Dalrymple and you can see that after 150 years we’ve the square root of **** all

[TheGreenGoblin]

Bit of recommended reading on the history of British involvement in Afghanistan is The Return of the King by William Dalrymple and you can see that after 150 years we’ve the square root of *f*ck* all

Intelligence is defined as the ability to learn from one's previous mistakes...