New Zealand

A place to discuss politics and things related to Govts
Message
Author
John Hill
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5695
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:40 pm
Location: Aotearoa

Re: New Zealand

#321 Post by John Hill » Sat Oct 29, 2022 3:10 am

prospector wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:50 am
NZ blindly followed along with the so called experts opinions, schools shut down, not for the sake of the children, but at the dictates of teachers union.
If NZ followed along the same mistaken path was were the results so different?

I am not aware of those dictates from any teachers union, are you talking about the NZSTA, PPTA , ISEA, NZRTA , NZATE or some other union?
Been in data comm since we formed the bits individually with a Morse key.

User avatar
FD2
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5110
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:11 pm
Location: New Zealand
Gender:
Age: 76

Re: New Zealand

#322 Post by FD2 » Sat Oct 29, 2022 3:51 am

prospector - with all the research which you have obviously been doing on the subject of Covid and your poor opinion of the way the Government handled the crisis, what opinions have you formed about the way they should have handled the outbreak and what do you think would have been the results for your nearest and dearest?

Hopefully this will have been an opinion formed at the start rather than with the great benefit of hindsight :-bd and what state do you think the country would be in now if your ideas had been followed, as opposed to the way it was actually handled? Numbers of deaths, psychological problems, duration of outbreak etc.

User avatar
FD2
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5110
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:11 pm
Location: New Zealand
Gender:
Age: 76

Re: New Zealand

#323 Post by FD2 » Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:05 am

One result of not spending much money on defence: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300725 ... antarctica

They've taken the important step of buying Poseidons to replace the Orions and NH90 to replace the Iroquois, but the Boeing 757s regularly go u/s in embarrassing places and the Hercules fleet must have about the highest airframe hours of their kind in the World. Have I missed some news about their replacements or are we in the position of being forced to choose between child poverty and defence, for example?

User avatar
barkingmad
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:13 pm
Location: Another Planet
Gender:
Age: 75

Re: New Zealand

#324 Post by barkingmad » Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:24 am

How did she justify the climate warning effects of her flights to/from the base?

As we’ve all been subjected for years to a barrage of doom-laden messages and filming from the likes of Attenbore and Thumberg, would Saint Jacinda really be more educated about the topic?

But of course she remains on-message as directed by the WEF diktats and must continue to ramp up the fear.

I’m still shivering in my northern eyrie awaiting the next ice age which was Project Fear in the 1970s but I have a nagging suspicion that the eggspurts then were wrong.

But we mustn’t let evidence get in the way of a good moneyspinning wheeze for the BigCorps who stand to benefit from the panic then and the same now.

John Hill
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5695
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:40 pm
Location: Aotearoa

Re: New Zealand

#325 Post by John Hill » Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:54 am

I find myself somewhat enthralled at your fascination for ower Jacinda!
Been in data comm since we formed the bits individually with a Morse key.

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17209
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: New Zealand

#326 Post by Boac » Sat Oct 29, 2022 9:47 am

Well, John - he is by his own definition a 'fan' of Jacinda's. It would be interesting to know how many large posters of her adorn his man cave.

User avatar
FD2
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5110
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:11 pm
Location: New Zealand
Gender:
Age: 76

Re: New Zealand

#327 Post by FD2 » Sat Oct 29, 2022 10:08 am

How did she justify the climate warning effects of her flights to/from the base?

As we’ve all been subjected for years to a barrage of doom-laden messages and filming from the likes of Attenbore and Thumberg, would Saint Jacinda really be more educated about the topic?

But of course she remains on-message as directed by the WEF diktats and must continue to ramp up the fear.


As aircraft are flying up and down frequently I think it's pointless making a stupid show over it. It's all good PR when her popularity is waning - it's what politicians do isn't it? She's no different to other politicians with their doom-laden messages but she tells it in such a nice manner doesn't she? ;;) ;))) :x

Scott Base is run by New Zealand BTW, but I expect you know that. The base is undergoing a massive improvement with tax payers' money involved so it's only right that she should get a visit as prime minister.

prospector
Capt
Capt
Posts: 1151
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:37 am
Location: New Zealand
Gender:
Age: 84

Re: New Zealand

#328 Post by prospector » Sun Oct 30, 2022 12:37 am

FD2
"Hopefully this will have been an opinion formed at the start rather than with the great benefit of hindsight"

That would be pointless exercise. It is very difficult to "unlearn something". And as you say, anything positive that I could state would only be classed as "benefit of hindsight". I have very much "spare time" on my hands these days, much of which is spent on this computer sussing out many opinions from many places on world events. Of which I can do nothing but sigh at the stupidity of humanity.
The latest I have heard are rumor's of Russia sending missiles to Cuba and Venezuela, that should, if true, create quite a furore. More red lines not to be crossed, but much closer to home for the United? States, difficult for Biden and his gang not to do something, and not have it compared to the Russian/Ukraine stupidity.

User avatar
FD2
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5110
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:11 pm
Location: New Zealand
Gender:
Age: 76

Re: New Zealand

#329 Post by FD2 » Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:26 am

I agree - it's difficult to 'unlearn' some of the huge number of 'facts' and 'theories' swirling round about Covid and the best way of handling it. I remember having it drummed into us at school that a theory was just that, until it had been proved, so maybe in the fullness of time someone will have the 'right' answers.

User avatar
llondel
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5913
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:17 am
Location: San Jose

Re: New Zealand

#330 Post by llondel » Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:57 pm

Newer evidence can still undo theories, that's the beauty of science. Newton came up with a bunch of stuff regarding gravity and motion, which was more than accurate for his era, but then Einstein&Co figured out that as one got closer to the speed of light, it didn't quite work that way. Most of what we do is based on modelling the real world - if we can predict it then we have a good theory for how it works as it relates to the current situation. Then someone comes along with something that was outside the original parameters that suggests the theory is inadequate, and people have to figure out how to incorporate the new evidence into a revised theory.

Covid appeared to be killing one in 500 of those it infected when it started, which is not good odds for most of us. There is some evidence that it has caused damage, possibly permanent, to some of those it infected but did not kill. As we discover more about it, hopefully these areas will become clearer and the risks more fully understood.

User avatar
FD2
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5110
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:11 pm
Location: New Zealand
Gender:
Age: 76

Re: New Zealand

#331 Post by FD2 » Wed Nov 02, 2022 7:03 pm

A very clever piece of viral engineering perhaps?

Karearea
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 4746
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:47 am
Location: The South Island, New Zealand

Re: New Zealand

#332 Post by Karearea » Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:42 pm

Report your neighbours if they disagree [1min 42s video]

And with the morn, those angel faces smile...

Karearea
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 4746
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:47 am
Location: The South Island, New Zealand

Re: New Zealand

#333 Post by Karearea » Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:45 pm

‘This is quite Orwellian’: NZ government introduces language compliance officers [7:11]

And with the morn, those angel faces smile...

User avatar
barkingmad
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:13 pm
Location: Another Planet
Gender:
Age: 75

Re: New Zealand

#334 Post by barkingmad » Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:14 pm

Ilondel sez:--"Covid appeared to be killing one in 500 of those it infected when it started,"---:, but based on what criteria?

At the onset of the plandemic, there was panic and inexperience and an incentive to guvvments to artificially inflate the fatality figures as part of the psy-ops against the population.

The survival figures for whichever 'flu variant was killing people is of the order of the high end of 99.9*% and has remained at that level apart from the elderly who were snuffed out by some immoral and murderous methods disguised as "treatment".
*insert your own decimal fraction as you see fit.

I don't know whence you got your 1/500 figure but I suspect it was from the heady days when we knew a lot less than we do now.

Have we all conveniently forgotten most of these fatality stats were based on the infamous "Gold Standard" PCR 'test' which never had a gold standard and I doubt if any here, including me, were told how many cycles their particular test had been run through?

Elsewhwere in O-N I have posted the magnification factors based on cycles and I thought that specific HARD data would be enough to bury that particular myth of PCR reliability. :-?

Many months ago the CDC in the US dumped the current versions of PCR having finally admitted they were crap and unreliable, especially with the percentage of false positives rising with the Ct levels.

So please let's not wave such IFR figures as their basis has been totally discredited by now and always were under suspicion by those with a modicum of critical thinking and scepticism.

P C R = Probable Crap Result... :YMPARTY:

P S. The reward/bounty for the pure isolated analysed confirmed identified C19 specimen has still not been claimed by any public health laboratory but such is the success of the Project Fear Mk1 folks are still worrying about the 'killer virus' stalking the land and attacking unmasked victims... ~X(

Curiously these 2 efforts from this prestigious institution result in "failed to open page";

"10 Nov 2021When limited to first-time study of target patients, the virus could be isolated in 98 of the 299 specimens with a positive rate of 32.8%. Fig. 1 The rate of virus isolation and number of days since the collection date of the first PCR positivity. All the specimens of suspected COVID-19 were tested for virus isolation in VeroE6/TMPRSS2 cells."
and;

"Viral isolation analysis of SARS-CoV-2 from clinical specimens of COVID-19 patients J Infect Chemother. 2022 Feb;28 ... (Ct) value obtained from the rRT-PCR test and virus isolation in cultured cells, using 533 consecutive clinical specimens of COVID-19 patients. The virus was isolated from specimens with a Ct value of less than 30 cycles, and ..."

This is the institution which has pulled these attempts;

https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

User avatar
FD2
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5110
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:11 pm
Location: New Zealand
Gender:
Age: 76

Re: New Zealand

#335 Post by FD2 » Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:25 pm

Thanks Karearea - this gets more and more worrying. Who decides what is 'hateful language' and what is not? If it's the government, then it really is Orwellian. I'm already sick to death of Te Reo being used constantly by the ever supine media - they've now completely stopped referring to 'Aotearoa/New Zealand' and dropped the 'New Zealand'. If there was a snap election now I'm sure Labour would be back in the Opposition benches.

What is more to the point as I post, what is the shiny Luxon going to come up with before the Election? ACT's David Seymour seems to be talking in a strange way since his robotic tribute to the Queen. They claim they will scrap Three Waters but the media are as ever intent on bringing up side issues instead of getting to grips with what National and ACT really intend to do about the PC speech issue, farting cattle, dirty rivers and lakes etc etc if they get in at the next election.

I have deliberately omitted climate change, where they all seem to have found common populist ground and so our 'grown ups' worship at the feet of a certain teenage Swede.

User avatar
FD2
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5110
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:11 pm
Location: New Zealand
Gender:
Age: 76

Re: New Zealand

#336 Post by FD2 » Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:34 pm

BM - You'll be delighted to hear that the COVID cases are increasing very rapidly here due to the relaxation rules for tourists and the Summer influx of cattle cruise ships with their lax control of infected inmates passengers. The Government seems to be strangely quiet about the situation - I expect they are waiting until it's out of control, like monkey pox may become, before taking any action.

I'm sure we are all very pleased with the new strategy. It's all we deserve after worshipping at the feet of St Jacinda isn't it? :(

User avatar
llondel
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5913
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:17 am
Location: San Jose

Re: New Zealand

#337 Post by llondel » Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:46 pm

barkingmad wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:14 pm
Ilondel sez:--"Covid appeared to be killing one in 500 of those it infected when it started,"---:, but based on what criteria?

At the onset of the plandemic, there was panic and inexperience and an incentive to guvvments to artificially inflate the fatality figures as part of the psy-ops against the population.

The survival figures for whichever 'flu variant was killing people is of the order of the high end of 99.9*% and has remained at that level apart from the elderly who were snuffed out by some immoral and murderous methods disguised as "treatment".
*insert your own decimal fraction as you see fit.

I don't know whence you got your 1/500 figure but I suspect it was from the heady days when we knew a lot less than we do now.
That was based on the raw numbers in the early days where the number of US fatalities was about 1/500th of the number of reported cases. I did say "appeared", because at the time that's the best anyone knew. The fatality rate for those who were supposed to get cancer or other care and had it delayed no doubt went up too, but no one bothered talking about that very much.

User avatar
barkingmad
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:13 pm
Location: Another Planet
Gender:
Age: 75

Re: New Zealand

#338 Post by barkingmad » Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:55 pm

FD2; Please define a "case", proven by some reliable clinical test and evaluation which also requires the 'patient' to display symptoms?

Prior to the plandemic, AFAIK, the world had never, ever, had asymptomatic hominids alleged to have a respiratory illness as 'diagnosed' by an unreliable 'test'.

But I'm open to correction on that issue providing "The Science" of 2020 is not used in evidence. :-w

User avatar
ExSp33db1rd
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 3229
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:51 am
Location: Lesser Antipode
Gender:
Age: 89

Re: New Zealand

#339 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:54 pm

......... I'm already sick to death of Te Reo being used constantly by the ever supine media
Me too.

User avatar
FD2
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5110
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:11 pm
Location: New Zealand
Gender:
Age: 76

Re: New Zealand

#340 Post by FD2 » Thu Nov 03, 2022 11:24 pm

I'm afraid I'm not qualified in bio chemistry or whatever branch of medicine this was copied from. I take a much more simplistic view of the whole matter and think that when faced with the uncertainty of a pandemic World governments took their various actions to save their people, which, often with the benefit of hindsight, clever medics and other less qualified people have taken a different view of. New Zealand's government took the easy step of isolating the country at the bottom of the Pacific, for better or worse.

In time one side or the other, and more likely a combination of all the various opinions, will be determined as the 'correct' way to have tackled whatever came out of that Chinese research facility, perhaps via the market next door. In the mean time most of it is just 'theories' - the stuff we were taught for 'O' Levels of Highers. Please don't come back and say it was the CIA or Spectre or whoever.

I don't know why you keep bringing this subject up on a thread about New Zealand. I know you're fascinated by our charming leaderene but it might be best to post your evidence on a specific COVID thread or start another if you're allowed.

Post Reply