Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

[Seenenough]

FD-you might wan't to add Canada to Belarus and Russia.

[FD2]

Nope. Hate Trudeau but the government should not bow to this group - that is what election are for.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Thank you for a rational assessment of the situation GG, made without getting your panties wet I think? When my son was a teenager he got obsessed with some of the conspiracy theories that were flying about concerning 9-11. He was so convinced by it that we had to agree to disagree for a few years. Now he has grown up and read about a lot of these conspiracy theories, instead of believing what some cranks put out on the internet he has a much more rational take on things. The visceral hatred of all things American amongst some of our contributors puzzles me, but we're all able to make our points of view freely, even in the streets, unlike the poor sods in Belarus and Russia who can't go and shout without getting beaten up and imprisoned.

Always best to keep one's panties and powder dry, as you say, FD2.

These conspiracy theories are extraordinary, and the way that they ensnare even some of the most intelligent people, implies there are many PhD's in aberrant psychology and the impact of the internet on our fragile psyches, to be had out there.

[FD2]

FD-you might wan't to add Canada to Belarus and Russia.

Are Canadian elections rigged too? Are you allowed to get out and have a good protest march without being beaten up, or are you writing about a group of people who are severely disrupting important trade with the US and holding their government to ransom?

[Seenenough]

FD-you might wan't to add Canada to Belarus and Russia.

Are you allowed to get out and have a good protest march without being beaten up, .......

Not if you look at this video.Also what about the Chinese or North Korean populations.Are they allowed to protest?

[TheGreenGoblin]

FD-you might wan't to add Canada to Belarus and Russia.

Are you allowed to get out and have a good protest march without being beaten up, .......

Not if you look at this video.

You should work for the Russian disinformation machine. Videos taken out of context are notoriously unreliable in giving any context to what actually happened and are often manipulated by the tendentious to add to the sense of the perpetually aggrieved, much like you and some others, who post here.

FD2's point is good. Canada is a democracy and I doubt that there is any standing order to trample old ladies to the ground in Ottawa, or wherever in Canada, no matter how irritating they are. Accidents do happen in protests as well, and the innocent are sometimes sucked in and injured during events that run out of control. The truth is, that if these idiots weren't still "protesting", that old lady would have probably not been in a situation where she might have been run down by a horse. Old ladies, do of course find endless ways to hurt themselves in any event, but I digress!

[FD2]

I was making the point that the two belligerents in the events in the Ukraine are not democracies, as normally understood in the 'West'. They rig their elections and are run by dictators who intimidate their populations. You suggested that Canada should be added to that pair of thugs but I disagree. Taking a YouTube clip of an elderly woman who somehow got in between police and a 'lively' demo - and in a wheelchair for God's sake - does not prove your point. Demos get out of hand sometimes and horses get spooked. The bearded chap at the start seems to have taken a leaf out of the Jacinda Ardern charm manners offensive - so really sincere and caring.

Canada is a democracy and I doubt that there is any standing order to trample old ladies to the ground in Ottawa, or wherever in Canada, no matter how irritating they are.

[Rwy in Sight]

I am not sure if it has been mentioned before but I see the current crisis as a reverse Cuba missile crisis in the 60's. Russia will keep Ukraine out of NATO and the US will get a favour somewhere else. In the meantime President Putin gets higher prices for his gas and oil and the US get a chance to market their own LPG to Europe. Obviously I may oversimplify the situation or I see it from European perspective but I feel it does hold some water. Any views?

[TheGreenGoblin]

I am not sure if it has been mentioned before but I see the current crisis as a reverse Cuba missile crisis in the 60's. Russia will keep Ukraine out of NATO and the US will get a favour somewhere else. In the meantime President Putin gets higher prices for his gas and oil and the US get a chance to market their own LPG to Europe.

One hopes that such logic will prevail in this case RiS, but I have my doubts this time. Putin has not faced the firm united response Khrushchev faced from the US and its allies at that time. I suspect Putin thinks he can get away with it!

[Undried Plum]

Cuba62 was a purely nuke thing. No land forces involved. In those days NATO didn't practically encircle Russia's motherland on her doorstep in the warlike way that they do nowadays.

In a way, this one is more dangerous in that NATO has become so extremely aggressive that it will be very difficult for The Empire to step back without losing face.

Nevertheless, RiS's viewpoint is an interesting one. Perhaps a happy outcome might be achieved if NATO can be persuaded to do the modern day equivalent of Kennedy's withdrawal of nukes from Turkey in exchange for withdrawal of Soviet nukes from Cuba.

NATO takeover of Ukraine really was a step too far. They might have got away with it if they'd done it before they took over Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania and Hungary, but taking Ukraine (and consequently Georgia, no doubt) really was taking the piss and could only anger the bear to an intolerable level.

[FD2]

NATO takeover of Ukraine really was a step too far. They might have got away with it if they'd done it before they took over Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania and Hungary, but taking Ukraine (and consequently Georgia, no doubt) really was taking the piss and could only anger the bear to an intolerable level.

Can you tell us why all these countries wanted to join NATO? Was it because NATO was threatening to invade and make them subservient to the great NATO Empire? Maybe it was because they had had so many years of being controlled by the slightly less than friendly Soviets and their puppet regimes.

Relatives by marriage lived in East Germany and the puppet regime there were dobbed them in to the Stasi a couple of times (by neighbours and former 'friends') for crimes like trying to smuggle a pair or shoes from Hungary and on another occasion a bit of loose talk criticising the regime when they were on a camping trip. The mother of the family spent time in prison. That's the way to live!

After these countries gained their freedom the last thing they wanted to do was stay under what they had experienced for many years - the Russian jackboot.

[Undried Plum]

The puppet regimes were forced into the NATO fold financially.

The post-Coup neo-Nazi puppet regime of Kiev, which the New American Century woman referred to in that phone call, is similarly constrained.

It's the old gangster routine which Shrub expressed as "If you're not with us, you're against us". Gangsters think that way and they 'persuade' that way.

[FD2]

Whatever.

[Rwy in Sight]

The puppet regimes were forced into the NATO fold financially.

The post-Coup neo-Nazi puppet regime of Kiev, which the New American Century woman referred to in that phone call, is similarly constrained.

It's the old gangster routine which Shrub expressed as "If you're not with us, you're against us". Gangsters think that way and they 'persuade' that way.

Two quick notes here:

If I have to live in a State with limited (or non existent) political freedoms I 'd rather live in one allowing me to have ample access to technological goods, nice houses etc. I take people in Poland Czech republic prefer the slavery on NATO and EU over the one from Warsaw pact.

Funnily enough the last time I heard in public speech the "If you're not with us, you're against us" line was by a politician of the Left with a deep admiration of the USSR, Cuba and North Korea. Fortunately he is out of power since 2019 and 10% behind the current government.

[Undried Plum]

[Bob]

Sorry Green baby, has to be done
[media][media]

[FD2]

Four Russian false flags that are comically easy to debunk https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... sy-debunk/

Analysts are poring over footage of purported standoffs and attacks paint Ukraine as the aggressor as Europe teeters on the edge of war
By Verity Bowman 21 February 2022 • 11:53am


For weeks Britain and the United States have been warning of Russian false flag attacks to create a justification for military action.

But in the age of social media, the Kremlin’s propaganda battle and disinformation campaigns by pro-Russian forces are easier to spot than ever before.

Analysts are poring over video footage of purported standoffs and attacks as Europe teeters on the edge of war - all of them devised to create confusion and doubt and ultimately paint Ukraine as the aggressor.

More metadata gold. Last night Luhansk published a vid of separatists removing a car of explosives before it could blow up a train of women & children evacuating to Russia. Turns out it was filmed in 2019 https://t.co/ayKW6qQOuH pic.twitter.com/shkmbxv8F8
— Alec Luhn (@ASLuhn) February 20, 2022

On Friday, bomb squads were seen in the Donbas region in footage released by the Luhansk People's Republic.

The clip shows a military vehicle as it tows a car allegedly packed with explosives away from a bridge, where it was threatening evacuating citizens along the Lugansk-Izvarino highway.

“An hour after finding a car with an explosive, a train was supposed to pass along the railway overpass, delivering evacuated women and children to the Russian Federation,” the LPR Ministry of State Security said in a publication.

Researchers have found that not all is as it seems.

They have looked into the video’s metadata, which is used to learn information about a specific video and is either embedded directly into the video or included as a separate file.

It can be uncovered from clips like the one recorded in Donbas, showing key markers like when and where the video was recorded.

Metadata taken from the clip released by the Luhansk People's Republic contradicts their claims: it was created on June 12, 2019, at 20.21pm.

Anatomy of a Russian Seperatist False Flag - On February 18th the Telegram channel of the press service of the People's Militia of the Donetsk People's Republic published the following video, claiming to show a sabotage operation targeting chlorine tanks https://t.co/Syk8NG2zKx pic.twitter.com/R4mfggxbPg
— Eliot Higgins (@EliotHiggins) February 20, 2022

Similar data was used to disprove a video released by separatists on February 18 showing “Polish saboteurs” attacking chemical storage to cause a major incident.

The People’s Militia of the DPR claimed the Polish insurgents “planned to blow up a tank with chlorine on the territory of a sewage treatment plant near the city of Gorlovka” and that they had retrieved the footage from the body of one of the men.

They said “foreign-made personal protective equipment and ammunition” was found alongside “an action camera mounted on a bulletproof vest”. Russian media propagated the claims.

Researchers used metadata to discover that the clip was created on February 8 and had additional audio or video embedded in it.

Eliot Higgins, the founder of Bellingcat, found that the video’s audio matched that of another uploaded to YouTube in 2010 of a military firing range in Finland, featuring a number of bangs and explosions.

Social media sleuths were able to confirm that the video was an attempted false flag.

Researchers at Belllingcat also used metadata to discover that footage of Donetsk's leader declaring the evacuation of citizens to Russia was actually recorded two days before the events he claimed caused the move.

OK. The story about the car explosion in Donetsk.
First. A car taken from a military reserve was blown up in a parking lot. Judging by the absence of a fire, it did not even have fuel, no protective mudguards, and it was not used. pic.twitter.com/vbDtMie198
— Anton Pustovalov (@djxtrees) February 20, 2022

Journalist Anton Pustovalov examined photographs taken at the scene of the alleged explosion of a Donetsk People's Republic’s military vehicle to uncover another false flag.

He said that due to the “absence of a fire” the vehicle “did not even have fuel, no protective mudguards, and it was not used”.

The license plate on the car was taken from another - the one used by the head of the Donetsk’s military police - to claim that a terrorist attack was being launched against him.

Other photos show the license plate on a newer UAZ Patriot than the one that exploded.

Russian backed separatists claiming this is footage of close quarters combat between them and Ukraine forces. Doesn’t seem to be any return fire though… pic.twitter.com/SWeXKg3pPu
— Jake Hanrahan (@Jake_Hanrahan) February 20, 2022

Another video clip shared widely on social media claimed to show shooting between pro-Russian forces and Ukrainians. The body camera footage shows fiery explosions and troops running towards the flames.

But as journalist Jake Hanrahan discovered, there does not appear to be any return fire from the “Ukrainian” side.

The volume of disinformation clips circulating on social media is growing.

Although analysts are able to quickly refute the majority, it is still having its desired impact, according to Christo Grozev, Bellingcat exec director.

“If you're wondering if Kremlin's poorly executed war propaganda works on its domestic audience: sadly, it does," he said.

“Have been talking to young people from Russia's countryside. They don't follow the news intently but are convinced Ukraine is shelling DNR/LNR and wants to start a war.”


What is the Russian for "doh!" '?

[TheGreenGoblin]

Sorry Green baby, has to be done
[media][media]

Good taste in music Bob. How can I be offended?

[Seenenough]

Seems to me that Putin wants to re-establish the old USSR bite by bite by having each piece declare independence and then invite Russia in to help protect them.

If China comes out in support of this I fear we are looking at a problem very much bigger than the Ukraine.

[John Hill]

Seems to me that Putin wants to re-establish the old USSR bite by bite by having each piece declare independence and then invite Russia in to help protect them.

If China comes out in support of this I fear we are looking at a problem very much bigger than the Ukraine.

But we do not need to worry as the USA will step forward to protect us, as they have done so many times before...