Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

[boing]

The weapons are on display in the RAF museum, so is the aircraft and it doesn't require much effort to generalise the targets.

[k3k3]

If you are in God's own country of Kernow, then you will likely be upwind and therefore fine. You won't even need telling not to look toward Devon, and everyone east of you acts like they have three heads anyway, so it will be no big deal if they turn up actually with three heads.
If you are in the Torquay direction, then you will be well acquainted with a combination of stress, misery, and chaos, which is why they set 'Fawlty Towers' there ;)

The last paragraph applies, Paignton, 70 metres from the high water mark and 17 metres up.

[Pontius Navigator]

OFSO, I believe it is possible to get permission to reveal such information but if you do you are forbidden to reveal you have it.

On one occasion I might have written a yield of 450kt. An another, on the basis that the physics package was still in use only a figure of 400 was permitted. Too late she cried.

Much later, with the benefit of Google Earth, one might add a picture of a previously named target. That was not permitted either, probably because most of the targets were now in friendly or even NATO States.

Regarding Boing's recollection of downtown Moscow, several other targets were also HQs and naturally located in Cities. Once such was the HQ of the Western Military District, I can't remember which city but might have been in Belarus. The point of such precision was a fig leaf to the Geneva Convention that we were only attacking a military target. It was assumed that like Rheindaln it would have been deployed well before that.

[Pontius Navigator]

A friend of mine will be releasing a well researched book later this year or early next. I expect it to be as detailed as Humphrey Wynn's book but benefitting from greater release of material. One thing discussed was the question of simultaneous launch versus simultaneous strike by the Russians.

[Woody]

Is that Top Secret radar/ communications centre still on Dundonald Hill, I not lived there for about 40 years

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I see all my deployment bases are on your estimate of the Rooskies 'little list'. However, we had some double secret places we had worked out, off our own bat, we could also use. We were always trying to scheme up new ways to survive. I recall one very keen deputy Flight Commander who had made up an ops board that could be hung up, with jets and missions on magnetic tags, and could fold up, so that it could be grabbed in case of rapid departure. After its proud introduction, one of the old salts pointed out that the tags would be demagnetised by the EMP of any nearby nuke going off. The dFC was so angry (with himself for not thinking of it), that he grabbed the board off the wall and slammed it down on the ops desk. There was a humongous bang due to the metal in the board. After a few seconds, the old salt said "That could work......the board's flat now so the tags won't fall off". And peace was restored, and the fancy ops board was kept, with the ops clerk detailed to lay it flat in the event of a Four Minute Warning.

[Pontius Navigator]

Fox, at Akrotiri we had bombproof Seco huts but the paper sandbags would have fixed that.

Anyway the planned decided to go smart and modern. Plastic strips were cut. Captains names were set out using Letraset. Magnets were glued to the plastic and new metal tote boards painted with blackboard chalk and white lines were secured to the walls.

It looked really smart. As it happened the Taceval team arrived the following Monday and the new system immediately deployed. Oh it looked good.

Someone cane in the outer door, opened the inner and entered the air conditioned calm of the planning cell. The door shut with a bang, the hut shook, and the plastic tags all fell to the floor.

How we laughed.

[llondel]

Obviously nobody here ever signed the Official Secrets Act, other than myself.

Is it even allowed to admit you signed it? I've occasionally seen job ads over here which require you to either be eligible to get a US security clearance or (ideally) already have one. I would have thought that admitting you have one is a way of telling someone you know something secret.

I do remember working for a UK defence company once and before my time there, people weren't even supposed to admit where they worked. So there were numerous tales of walking round the local town at lunchtime and having casual conversations with people, and as soon as the subject of work came up, they'd know instantly that someone worked there. Probably why the requirement had been abolished by the time I started work.

[ribrash]

Obviously nobody here ever signed the Official Secrets Act, other than myself.

Is it even allowed to admit you signed it? I've occasionally seen job ads over here which require you to either be eligible to get a US security clearance or (ideally) already have one. I would have thought that admitting you have one is a way of telling someone you know something secret.

I do remember working for a UK defence company once and before my time there, people weren't even supposed to admit where they worked. So there were numerous tales of walking round the local town at lunchtime and having casual conversations with people, and as soon as the subject of work came up, they'd know instantly that someone worked there. Probably why the requirement had been abolished by the time I started work.

I had to sign it when I worked at British Nuclear Fuels for a couple of years.The fact I,d signed it got me out of a sticky situation at a later interview.

[Pontius Navigator]

I had all sorts of jobs, I ran an office, I was a librarian, I managed a nature reserve, I was a teacher, I was a civil servant. Everything was true but at the same time was not telling what the job entailed.

I was mortified one evening when in the bar my boss called me over and introduced me to a journalist for the Daily Mail and said exactly what I did.

[Undried Plum]

[Undried Plum]

When I was a Catman in Oman one of my Battmen was a Major. In his regiment commissioned officers were rather rare as the Troopers and NCOs were expected to have enough gumption not to need them. Most officers were returned to their parent unit after completing a three year tour. Each of them was encouraged to have a pet project of some sort and to pursue it to their heart's content. One guy did a huge amount of research into non-battlefield casualties with a view to reducing them. Mike K studied advanced land navigation.

He researched the methods used by the Long Range Desert Patrol Group in North Africa during WW2 and he questioned me very closely on methods used by hydrographic surveyors. I taught him tricks such as double-angle horizontal sextant resection and vertical subtense, as well as finding time and location by Neville Maskelyne's lunar distance method. He then taught instructors in the art(s) of advanced land navigation. He was asked to stay on after his three years, but unlike other ranks, officers in that mob have to requalify from scratch. Mike perished from hypothermia on the Brecon Beacons in an idiotic accident.

During the later Falklands thing all four of the trained instructors died in a Sea King birdstrike from which nobody survived. The unit had no specialist in advanced land navigation and they didn't have a manual, so after the war was over Mike R contacted me and hired me to teach eight instructors and to write a comprehensive manual on the subject of Advanced Land Navigation.

Many years later the army set up a brand new reconnaissance unit and wanted somebody to teach their SNCOs a special course in the subject. Their newly appointed CO contacted me and hired me to do the job. At our first meeting I could see that he had my manual on his desk. My PV had long since expired and the manual was classified Confidential. Initially, we had the absurd situation that I was not allowed to read that manual when putting together my course materials. I had to explain to him that I wrote the bloody thing!

Sometimes army OpSec can be ever so slightly bonkers.

[G-CPTN]

But could you remember enough to work from memory?

[prospector]

Some interesting figures quoted here, and given the source many will say they are not correct, but I believe very likely true numbers

https://www.rt.com/russia/558218-ukraine-us-nato-poll/

"Ukrainians blame own govt alongside Russia for conflict – poll
Almost 50% believe that Zelensky’s government bears “a great deal of responsibility” for the ongoing fighting, according to the study

""Ukrainians tend to believe that not only Russia, but their own government, the US, and NATO should all share the blame for the conflict in their country, a recent poll has found.

The survey, done by phone among 1,005 Ukrainians between June 9 and 13, was carried out by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago and paid for by the Wall Street Journal.

The participants were united on Russia’s role in the conflict, with 82% saying that the country bears “a great deal of responsibility” after sending its troops into Ukraine on February 24. Only 9% believed Moscow had nothing to be blamed for."

[bob2s]

Ukraine may as well give up now, reason Ex Australian PM Kevin Dud Kevin Rudd has been appointed to a committee to develop ways to deter future aggression against
Ukraine.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 5ayaw.html

[Undried Plum]

But could you remember enough to work from memory?

I could remember enough of the subject material, but I wanted to base my course on the structure of the manual that I had written and I wanted to revise and improve the manual itself. I had not memorised the layout and because of the classified nature of the document I had not kept a copy of my script.

The CO checked that it really was me who had written the thing and relented on withholding it from me. He later agreed with me that a Restricted classification would have been more appropriate. I believe that my improved edition now has that classification rather than OTT Confidential level. My lectures were, however, still classified as Confidential for bureaucratic reasons. That itself was a bit nutty because I was the only person who was not cleared to listen to what I was lecturing. Sometimes army logic can be a bit difficult to follow.

The only stuff in there that needs to be kept secret (not Secret) is the mention of ordinary everyday objects which can be used by well trained specialist land navigators. Those items do not look like navigation or survey instruments and a British serviceman under capture might have some difficulty in explaining them away to a skilled interrogator if that interrogator was in possession of that manual.

[G-CPTN]

Thanks, UP - as usual succinct and clear explanation.

[llondel]

Many years later the army set up a brand new reconnaissance unit and wanted somebody to teach their SNCOs a special course in the subject. Their newly appointed CO contacted me and hired me to do the job. At our first meeting I could see that he had my manual on his desk. My PV had long since expired and the manual was classified Confidential. Initially, we had the absurd situation that I was not allowed to read that manual when putting together my course materials. I had to explain to him that I wrote the bloody thing!

I know someone who wrote TS documents that once officially released, he was not allowed to see because his clearance wasn't high enough.

[Pontius Navigator]

Ilondel, I had the reverse situation. I was called in to the CO who briefed me on the contents of a letter that was Eyes A limited distribution.

Two days later, because of one word in the letter, it was upgraded to TS. As TS custodian it was given to me to retain.

Best though was a document, S, but caveatted with the caveats themselves classified. I was the custodian but was not cleared to either read or page check it. It was kept on a sealed envelope. Every 6 months it was taken out in the presence of the one person cleared to have eyes on.
I would sign an access sheet inside the front cover, so would he. I would then observe him doing the page check. He would sign. I would countersign as having observed him, the book would then be resealed and not opened again for 6 months.

[Boac]

Mike perished from hypothermia on the Brecon Beacons in an idiotic accident.

Are you, perchance, on Mr Fiennes Christmas Card list?

I should correct you on the Sea KIng accident - I understand that 9 of the 31 on board survived.