Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

A place to discuss politics and things related to Govts
Message
Author
User avatar
Fox3WheresMyBanana
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 12979
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Great White North
Gender:
Age: 61

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2981 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:23 pm

Kursk airport mil fuel depot still burning


I have geolocated this to the larger group of 3 tanks, here:

51.75280965476885, 36.30681603895826

This is, I suspect, one of the bases from which the Russians launched Fullbacks on the missile strike.
This may have a significant effect on their ability to do it again, which is probably the point of these raids by the Ukrainians- it's not revenge, but direct response.

Meanwhile, at Engels


There is more useful stuff in each of the threads

My guess is that the nose section of the Bear has dropped down and left, due to fire damage to the frame on the right side where the leading edge of the wing meets the fuselage.
That is an ex-Bear.

Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2982 Post by Pontius Navigator » Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:02 pm

What about the crop wing Bear second from bottom left?

Edit: I see from a further tweet that it, and the next one, have been there, unmoved since at least 2019.

User avatar
Fox3WheresMyBanana
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 12979
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Great White North
Gender:
Age: 61

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2983 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:06 pm

That's been there for months.
No idea what they use it for.

User avatar
Fox3WheresMyBanana
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 12979
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Great White North
Gender:
Age: 61

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2984 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:10 pm

Missile stocks.
Ukrainian Intelligence seem to think that Russian production remains low, and they are prepared to run all stocks down to zero.
Not convinced, myself.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/12/6/7379520/

Russian media.
I keep an eye on the comments in Russian and proxy media. Over the last month, all pretense at rational comment has disappeared.
It's what you'd expect to hear in a dive bar in Omsk, between some manual workers' 17th and 18th round of vodkas.
It's all hyperbolic rants about NATO already at war with Russia, Ukraine losing 3 million men a day, and time for Russia to start chucking nukes around.
Given that most of the commentators are Russia bots and paid stooges, it looks like they are trying to prepare people for putin to do anything he wants.
There's a definite disconnect, however, between the demands for immediate action and what Russia has done.

User avatar
Fox3WheresMyBanana
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 12979
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Great White North
Gender:
Age: 61

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2985 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:13 pm

Best image yet from Engels


Initial impact point appears to be 50m from the Bear.
Nose section appears attached - must have been a reflection effect in the last shot that made it look otherwise.
Probably still out of action for months, at least.

The direction of strike is about 20 degrees off the flight line. Pretty much bound to get one.
Wonder what the routing was?
Looks like it came in from the SW over the industrial area of Engels.
Maybe down the Don valley and up the Volga valley?

Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2986 Post by Pontius Navigator » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:16 pm

The clip Bear arrived late summer 19. The other in fall 17.

User avatar
Fox3WheresMyBanana
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 12979
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Great White North
Gender:
Age: 61

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2987 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:23 pm

I would guess they are unflyable airframes used for loading and/or mechanic training
Maybe one is specifically for nuke training. Did you have one for that?

User avatar
Fox3WheresMyBanana
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 12979
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Great White North
Gender:
Age: 61

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2988 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:52 pm

BOAC, I think, asked about a possible attack from Belarus.
The Uke General Staff today said they don't think so.

User avatar
Fox3WheresMyBanana
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 12979
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Great White North
Gender:
Age: 61

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2989 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:54 pm

Possibility of an all-for-all prisoners exchange


Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2990 Post by Pontius Navigator » Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:25 pm

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:23 pm
I would guess they are unflyable airframes used for loading and/or mechanic training
Maybe one is specifically for nuke training. Did you have one for that?
No.

In QRA days we would generally have one live load per week. In Yellow Sun days we did not have enough training rounds. Twice a year all aircraft would be generated with warshot. Once a year when we had a generation and deployment as many aircraft as possible would be loaded with drill rounds and the rest with warshot. Once loaded, and before dispersal, warshot would be downloaded. It would take 7 minutes to load a Yellow Sun and the crew accept it.
When we got WE177 we had sufficient training rounds for all aircraft. Unfortunately loading time increased to 35 minutes.
Drills therefore were done on operational aircraft.

I can't see any value in having an aircraft just for loading practise as all its weapons systems would need to be maintained. Battle damage repair however might be the case if they ever considered. that.

User avatar
4mastacker
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5141
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:38 pm
Location: With the wife
Gender:
Age: 76

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2991 Post by 4mastacker » Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:47 pm

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:23 pm
I would guess they are unflyable airframes used for loading and/or mechanic training
Maybe one is specifically for nuke training. Did you have one for that?
The "Tail-less Wonder" ( a ground training airframe sans tailfin) at Scampton was used for special weapon load training. It was parked over on either Echo or Foxtrot near to the SSA and was eventually towed to the former 35 Sqn dispersal to test the viability of dropping it on to its belly prior to cutting up - the test didn't quite go to plan and spectators walked away quietly whilst the engineers held a hurried "WTF do we do now?" huddle.
It's always my fault - SWMBO

Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2992 Post by Pontius Navigator » Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:25 pm

4ma, do tell.

We 'dropped' a Mk 1 at Waddo. It was one that the Stash had flown on a memorable flag raising sortie and he did not want to get rid if it. He was overruled. He ordered that the deed be done on a Sunday when he was not on base.

The aircraft was to be defuelled and the armourers set charges to blow the wheels off. Of course the danger would be if not all the wheels were destroyed, so they used enough to ensure it worked.

At the due time the charges went, the residual fuel went up, and the contaminated oil there to give the firemen something to do caught fire and the locals thought WW3 had started.

The fire was so intense that is melted the cockpit instruments but the fire crews rescued the dummies safely.

Afterwards they reckoned it had 25k of fuel. Apart from the jet pipes and nose the rest was Ash.

User avatar
4mastacker
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5141
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:38 pm
Location: With the wife
Gender:
Age: 76

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2993 Post by 4mastacker » Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:29 pm

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:25 pm
4ma, do tell......
The "plan" was to use the aircraft's own hydraulics to raise the undercarriage whilst a rearwards pulling force was applied through the drogue chute attachment point.

This was achieved by attaching a gert big rope linking the aircraft to a Douglas Taskmaster tug. Meanwhile, the engineers were tinkering with the u/c hydraulics to reverse their normal function i.e. 'down' became 'up'.

Come the appointed time, the amended hydraulic system was activated, chocks placed at the rear of the main wheels and the tug started pulling in the hope that the rearward pull and the forward retraction of the main gear would allow the aircraft to settle on its belly.

The tug pulled and the aircraft's nose rose as if it was returning to the air and there it stayed...until a very loud 'crack' was heard as the rope parted, the tug jumped forward and the the aircraft nose descended, bouncing a couple of times pushing the nose leg through the cockpit floor. The aircraft came to rest nose on the ground, @rse in the air and there it stayed. Cue some engineers looking at each other and casting querying looks whilst they gathered in a huddle to discuss 'next moves'.

We stood around for a few minutes then just as we decided to leave the scene, there was a loud hissing sound from the aircraft and with a 'thud', the main legs retracted and the aircraft was on its belly. After that, it was decided that technique would not be used for scrapping the other aircraft which were grounded by the scrappy hoiking the legs out using a JCB and a long chain.
It's always my fault - SWMBO

User avatar
Fox3WheresMyBanana
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 12979
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Great White North
Gender:
Age: 61

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2994 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:36 pm

I have a very large scrappy just down the road from me. He uses JCB-equivalents (Caterpillars, IIRC) and long chains for everything!
His JCBs have a shield fitted in case the chain breaks.

User avatar
Fox3WheresMyBanana
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 12979
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Great White North
Gender:
Age: 61

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2995 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:45 pm

Overhead of Kursk airport oil depot fire - confirms my earlier geolocation


Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2996 Post by Pontius Navigator » Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:28 pm

I see construction began in summer 2014 and ready in
Summer 16 including a rail depot.

What do you make of the compound 450 yards NE.? It has a separate security fence all round. The access track is long and narrow with two temporary buildings at the throat.

It has many hall marks of a Q pen. The dispersals at East end and west end are also gated except east end where runway access for 4 jets is open.

User avatar
Fox3WheresMyBanana
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 12979
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Great White North
Gender:
Age: 61

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2997 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:49 pm

I think you mean the two areas just NE of the eastern runway threshold.
Google Maps shows 4 Fullbacks in the four slots of the westernmost of the two areas.
The easternmost has a double fence round it.
Conclusion: Strike QRA-capable, but currently attack QRA
I count 16 Fulcrums, apparently in storage.
I count 5 Flankers, likely AD QRA detachment. Two jets on RS10/15 on the main pan (eastern end, closest to midpoint between the two thresholds), two backup, one being serviced in rotation.
I think the compound is for servicing, they have temporary buildings for extra servicing, and the fence is anti-theft/intruder. It seems similar to other fenced areas.
I count 15 Fullbacks.

Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2998 Post by Pontius Navigator » Wed Dec 07, 2022 3:20 pm

Yes, I had rotated GE and forgotten to adjust compass. I then had a closer look at the POL. It was a new facility. I did make a note of dates but just lost them. Something like 2015 start and in use 2017. Similar story at Engels, new tank farm and rail siding between the two original underground ones. That'll learn 'em.

Also had a look at Engels weapons dumps. I hazard a guess that the nuclear storage was 4 miles south east though that may be an older facility. There appear to be two other sites just east of 22L.

The aircraft movements in the adjacent hardstands look interesting. Early on a mix of Blackjack and Bear and our clip wing Bear and the Classic make an appearance.

As time goes on the Blackjack numbers decrease, the Bears seem to come and go with the Classic and clip wing being shuffled around. Finally they are alone but still moving around.

User avatar
Fox3WheresMyBanana
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 12979
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:51 pm
Location: Great White North
Gender:
Age: 61

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#2999 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Wed Dec 07, 2022 3:34 pm

I agree.
The 4 mile SE and the nearer of the two to the runway look like they are in use for nukes. The further is probably conventional weapons, as is the area north of the main pan.

User avatar
boing
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 2714
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:32 am
Location: Beautful Oregon USA
Gender:
Age: 77

Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#3000 Post by boing » Wed Dec 07, 2022 5:09 pm

Some posts ago I made the "tongue in cheek" comment that:
I suppose that if their aircraft were hit by "Russian made" drones this counts as a victory and shows Russian technical prowess?
One of their loathsome bloggers actually said this:
Ukraine launches Soviet drones at Russian bases

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzAmoG4p1Yo
That's OK then, it doesn't smart so much now.

Here's the interesting consideration.
Everyone says that if the missiles used by the Ukrainians were in fact the TU114s they are obsolete and the Ukraine does not have many in stock. This ignores an important fact. The Ukrainians have been trying to develop their own long range missiles so it is quite possible that the Ukrainians decided that the TU114 had a perfectly sound airframe design. They have had plenty of time to reverse engineer this airframe perhaps with the substitution of a Ukrainian made engine, something with which they have considerable experience. A good airframe design, tested and developed, with the addition of avionics from present generation cruise missiles would be a formidable opponent and have a relatively short development time.

.
the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.

Post Reply