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Having been involved with a force that actually engaged with the Russians, you have to kill them when necessary. They have forgotten that.. now we are in trouble...

As a retired veteran of Nato forces will I have to engage in any sort of combat with the young killer in your opening post?

Something which will bother me all night until I get a definitive answer, such is my restless condition in these troubled times.

But I can sing, having trod the boards in a previous existence, if that's any use?

barkingmad wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:56 pm

As a retired veteran of Nato forces will I have to engage in any sort of combat with the young killer in your opening post?

Something which will bother me all night until I get a definitive answer, such is my restless condition in these troubled times.

But I can sing, having trod the boards in a previous existence, if that's any use?

This is a sad swinging dick thing. I have lost friends, including one of my brothers in this thing... for myself well

It all happens on the ground, Until have seen a man scream as you torture him, or seen a young friend, shot in the lungs, vomiting blood and dying badly then I can't talk to you...

Time for your bed Gobbers.

AtomKraft wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:07 pm

Time for your bed Gobbers.

I remember man... I can't sleep...

Nobody here will look at the real risk...

Not the press, nor our useless politicians. We are asleep, walking into Armageddon!

TheGreenGoblin wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:02 pm

This is a sad swinging dick thing.

In the right place.... but here if you say too much we will have 2000 ex US Navy SEALS to contend with.

John Hill wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:58 pm

TheGreenGoblin wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:02 pm

This is a sad swinging dick thing.

In the right place.... but here if you say too much we will have 2000 ex US Navy SEALS to contend with.

John, in war there are no innocents. Civilization is stalled. Delta force down to Norwegian MJK, we have no say until we have read more Shakespeare, and understood that we can't go on like this...

TheGreenGoblin wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:05 am

John, in war there are no innocents. Civilization is stalled. Delta force down to Norwegian MJK, we have no say until we have read more Shakespeare, and understood that we can't go on like this...

And so we must learn to kill the Russians (again)...

" And so we must learn to kill the Russians (again)."

Why so again? were they not on "our" side the last time the world went mad big time.

prospector wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:27 am

" And so we must learn to kill the Russians (again)."

Why so again? were they not on "our" side the last time the world went mad big time.

Korea + the Chinese (for my Dad)

Angola (for me)...

TGG

And yet, here we worry about the "Royals" and some **** called Johnson...

Talk about fiddling as Rome burns...

Whilst agreeing with the intent of, I believe your post is meant to convey, to put all the blame on the Russians is going a step to far, in my opinion only as an outsider reading many reports into this conflict, the following would be one of the better descriptions I would have thought, but I was not there, perhaps your take on this report would be of value as being part of the feet on the ground folk.

https://www.sahistory.org.za/article/an ... ef-history

"How was the conflict funded?

UNITA

External support played a major role in the funding of Angola’s civil war, and one consequence of the Cold War was the flow of Western funding to UNITA. During the 1980s, UNITA was supplied with US$80-million in arms, military training and logistics by the South African government, while the South African Air Force contributed regular drops of arms, ammunition, medicine and food to UNITA troops. Additionally, UNITA troops received varying support from other African countries; UNITA troops underwent training in Senegal, Tanzania and Zambia in the 1970s, and received financial and military aid from Egypt, Morocco, Senegal, Somalia and Tunisia. It was also reported that Israel contributed aid and training in Zaire, while several Arab states such as Saudi Arabia and Kuwait supplied support valued at around US$60 to US$70-million per year. The United States’ Central Intelligence Agency was speculated to have supplied between US$15 million and US$20 million annually in weapons, medicine, logistics and training."

This is perhaps a good example of "guessing" who is behind attacks that are used as a reason to start armed conflict.
https://www.rt.com/russia/546174-ukrain ... aign=Email

In response to post #1, why do you think we need to WAIT?

As always, there are two sides to this.
I can understand why Russia is getting antsy. They are literally surrounded by US/ NATO military bases, and year by year they creep closer.
Ukraine is flat. There are no mountains between the Western edge of Russia, and Europe.
If Ukraine joins NATO it might feel to Russia as the US felt when missiles appeared on Cuba- ie 'threatened'.

The Cold War was won by us, and lost by the USSR.

Maybe it's time we remembered that and knocked it off a bit.

I have a number of Ukrainian friends, a few of whom actually live in Eastern Ukraine. Their take on the whole thing seems to be pretty sanguine (no pun intended).
The Russians and the Ukrainians have never been friends - a bit like us and the French really. Despite having a (more or less) common language and religion, they feel that they have always been looked down upon by the Russians. For their part, the Russians I know and still correspond with, have nothing but disdain for Ukraine and Ukrainians. None of them can put forward a logical reason for this, except to call them 'peasants' - a reflection of their agricultural heritage. The Ukrainian flag is said to represent blue skies and the yellow refers to the vast quantities of wheat which the country produces. I have heard it called 'Russia's Breadbasket'.

My Russian friends tell me that there are regular demonstrations in Moscow against Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. (His dad didn't have much imagination, did he?). Of course these are quickly put down and not reported anywhere, but there are those who think he is beginning to lose the plot. I am sure he's well aware that he's not very popular either inside or outside his own country, but why should he care? It's no different from his counterpart in the DPRK who seems to get by OK. As ever with this sort of thing, the leaders indulge themselves in some sabre-rattling in order to bolster their approval ratings at home. Kim Jong-un is the leader of what is a small country and does not have the expansionist ideas of VVP. VVP for his part, despite being the leader of the largest country in the world, feels the need to show his people what a strong man he is, though many are beginning to tire of this, especially when there are food shortages and inflation is rampant.

I cannot see NATO becoming seriously involved if Russia does attack Ukraine. They did nothing when it took over Crimea, saying that many who lived there were Russian anyway - they were not. No doubt the book of excuses is being pored over as we speak, but I really don't see this becoming a full-scale war.

In 1919 the Western countries tried to crush the revolution. We failed. Understandably they are suspicious of the West. In 1941they were invaded but eventually prevailed with some Allied help.

As a reward the West encouraged all countries bordering the USSR to join various treaties, treaties that largely permitted US bases to be set up and offensive forces deployed.

How would you feel if your neighbours formed a military alliance whose main purpose was to contain you and stop your international influence?

In the early 90s I attended a lecture on NATO expansion by a callow youth from Birmingham University. Well actually he was a professor but looked in his early 20s. The thrust was where would NATO expansion cease? Kazakhstan is not near the Atlantic but was said to be a possible joiner.

Not yet maybe but where will it stop? The Black Sea is no longer a communist lake. The Western border has moved east. No wonder Russia may feel threatened.

While not discounting the covert influence by the US and its allies, another thing to consider is whether these countries would be interested in joining NATO if they didn't feel threatened by Russia? Of course, that's what causes arms races and other escalation in the first place, fear that the other side is more powerful and will move against you, so you have to up your game.

The problem is NATO military expansionism.

It has pushed relentlessly Eastward ever since WarPac ceased to exist.

Russians have a folk memory of what happens when an intensely aggressive military entity, armed to the teeth, starts pushing Eastward.

The world would be a much safer place today if NATO had been disbanded when its original raison d'etre ceased to exist.