Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1581 Post by Boac » Fri May 20, 2022 8:08 pm

Someone on TOP posted this link to the Defence Select Committee meeting to discuss our 'preparedness' for want of a better word. https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/8 ... ccde927d06

The video of the session is long - over an hour, but needs to be watched. The UK, and I suspect most of NATO. is not in a good place.

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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1582 Post by boing » Sat May 21, 2022 1:22 pm

Interesting little chat from some intelligent people, there are a series of very significant points made throughout the video.

[media][media]


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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1583 Post by Mrs Ex-Ascot » Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:29 am

This is an interesting comment IMO; https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/arti ... iumph.html
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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1584 Post by prospector » Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:05 am

https://www.rt.com/russia/557824-ukrain ... aign=Email

"Ukraine’s prospective membership in the alliance was a key factor behind the current conflict with Russia. Ukraine wrote its goal of becoming a NATO member into its constitution in 2019, despite Moscow’s warnings that having the alliance’s forces and weapons on its border would constitute an unacceptable security threat. "

Taking a lot of death and destruction to get rid of that unacceptable threat.

https://www.rt.com/news/557821-kirby-us ... y-victory/

"Armed with American weapons, Kiev will determine the terms of a peace deal with Russia, US National Security Council spokesman John Kirby told Voice of America on Friday.

'While others have suggested that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky should cede some territory for peace, Kirby said Washington is preparing for what could be “a prolonged conflict.” Really?? Washington is?

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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1585 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:22 pm

I note none of the superpower sphere-of-influence discussers care a hoot about what the peoples in their so-called buffer zones might actually want.
I also note that Russia's promise to respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine, in exchange for it giving up its nuclear weapons, contained no caveats.

And more importantly, who could blame any nation for seeking to acquire nuclear weapons, given what happens to countries that don't have them, or give them up?

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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1586 Post by Undried Plum » Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:37 pm

If that bloody neocon clown in Kiev had nukes, how long do you think it would have been before he used them against Russia? Victoria Nuland and her ghastly gang didn't hesitate to use Ukraine as a proxy in The Empire's war against Russia.

Which country has used nukes? How long after acquiring them did they actually start to use them?

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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1587 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:47 pm

Not sure what you are asking; whether Ukraine would have used nukes without Russia invading Ukraine?
I would have thought Ukraine wouldn't have been invaded if it still had them.
I note no nukes have been used since WW2, despite the collection of rogues, clowns, and psychos who have ruled and currently rule the countries that have them.

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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1588 Post by Undried Plum » Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:50 pm

Yes, but it was a damn close run thing in '62, don'tcha think?

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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1589 Post by larsssnowpharter » Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:14 pm

The cynic in me whispers in my ear that this is a proxy war between the USA and the rump of the USSR in order to reduce Russian conventional capability to near zero while the USA focuses on what it believes to be the current existential threat: China.

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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1590 Post by Undried Plum » Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:18 pm

The pharterwhisperer has nailed it.

The neocon strategy is to crush Russia before turning on China.

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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1591 Post by Boac » Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:45 pm

Damned clever of the USA to persuade Russia to move all those troops and armour to the border, don'tcha think? Not forgetting persuading them to annexe the area in 2014. I view Obama's strategy in a new light now.

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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1592 Post by boing » Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:16 pm

It is not possible to realistically suggest that the "west" initiated the war in Ukraine for their own purposes but it seems that in light of the initial Russian incompetence that the "west" quickly realised that they had a great opportunity to bleed Russian forces both in manpower and equipment. Had the Russian invasion competently completed its initial plan the combat would have been over by now.

This is a chess game played on a triangular board with black, white and grey players. If you view the situation cynically the grey players gain relative strength by watching black and white wear each other down. The ultimate aim is that black loses, white wins and swings hard towards grey in gratitude and grey modestly says it was nothing meanwhile quietly gaining greatly from the damage done to black because black did not recognise where the trap was really set.

Presently Russia effectively stands to lose Sevastopol as a dominant Black Sea port even though it may retain possession but more critically use of Kaliningrad on the Baltic is threatened. Would Lithuania and NATO have dared to block Kaliningrad if Russian forces had not been worn down in Ukraine?

Eventually Russia will only have its nuclear arsenal as a final deterrent but it knows that this could only be used as a last resort in case of invasion of Russia itself or as an action of gross insanity. So Russia is in a fix. Through its own fault Russia has lost a great part of its conventional military resources, it faces the risk of partially losing the use of its two year round naval facilities, it has pushed its non-aligned neighbours into NATO, Belarus has been demonstrated as being only useful as a doormat and it has demonstrated that its military strategy is still based on Genghis Khan not Sun Tzu. A more disastrous result of an apparently simple invasion could hardly be imagined.

I still think that Kherson is the key to the chess game but watch for events in Belarus with its Mussolini type leader. The final complication we do not need is the stupidity of Joe Biden and his energy policies


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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1593 Post by Boac » Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:07 pm

boing wrote:It is not possible to realistically suggest that the "west" initiated the war in Ukraine for their own purposes but it seems that in light of the initial Russian incompetence that the "west" quickly realised that they had a great opportunity to bleed Russian forces both in manpower and equipment. Had the Russian invasion competently completed its initial plan the combat would have been over by now.
Spot on in my opinion. A perfect opportunity created by a madman. At a tragic cost to both Russia and Ukraine, Putin has re-written Russian history for years to come.

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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1594 Post by Undried Plum » Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:47 pm

boing wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:16 pm
more critically use of Kaliningrad on the Baltic is threatened.
Kaliningrad is low-hanging fruit for the NATO aggressors to pluck. For months there has been continuous NATO air power overtly menacing that isolated part of Russia.

The latest chess move has been to strangle the place by siege warfare and to largely choke off the land corridor which has existed since 1945.

It's a very sinister move by NATO which is clearly intended to provoke a defensive reaction from Russia with a view to then presenting it as Russian aggression instead of what it really is, which is continued NATO aggression against Russia.

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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1595 Post by larsssnowpharter » Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:53 pm

Thank you boing for expressing my point far more eloquently than I.

But then, I can at least claim brevity as only used one sentence!

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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1596 Post by Rwy in Sight » Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:13 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:50 pm
Yes, but it was a damn close run thing in '62, don'tcha think?
And just because of their nature and balance of power were not used. So it is a rather effective weapon to own.


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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1597 Post by boing » Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:31 pm

Lars,

As Churchill famously said " Please excuse the length of my letter, I did not have time to write a shorter one."

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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1598 Post by Undried Plum » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:32 pm

Einstein famously said "The truth should always be expressed as simply possible, but never more so".

The Imperial war(s) against Russia go back a long way. They are ongoing. Sure, there was a half-decade interregnum in the 20thC when they were found to be useful idiots and were used as such, but the war(s) against Russia go on. And on.

There are currently three wars against Russia by The Empire. There's the economic warfare. That's the big one. There's also the propaganda war. Then there's also the proxy war, currently being fought by useful Ukrainian idiots. All the same war, really.

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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1599 Post by boing » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:56 pm

UP,

I think it must be true that a shadow campaign has been waged against Russia to limit its expansionist habits but the only two declared wars by truly western powers have been those of Napoleon and Hitler whereas Russia has a record of attacking neighbouring countries to fulfill its aims.

This list was copied from the website GHPAGE.
Today, we bring to you the tall list of all the countries Russia has invaded since 1941.

Iran (1941–1946)
Hungary (1944)
Romania (1944)
Bulgaria (1944)
Czechoslovakia (1944)
Northern Norway (1944–1946) and Bornholm, Denmark (1945–1946)
Germany (1945)
Austria (1945–1955)
Manchuria (1945–1946)
Korea (1945–1948)
Kuril Islands (1945)
Czechoslovakia (1968–1989)
Afghanistan (1979–1989)
Crimean Peninsula – (2014)
Ukraine – (2022)
Is it surprising that the West takes possible opportunities to corral Russia?

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Re: Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

#1600 Post by Undried Plum » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:07 pm

Countries bombed by the US since the establishment of the Kaliningrad corridor in 1945:


China 1945-46

Korea 1950-53

China 1950-53

Guatemala 1954

Indonesia 1958

Cuba 1959-60

Guatemala 1960

Belgian Congo 1964

Guatemala 1964

Dominican Republic 1965-66

Peru 1965

Laos 1964-73

Vietnam 1961-73

Cambodia 1969-70

Guatemala 1967-69

Lebanon 1982-84

Grenada 1983-84

Libya 1986

El Salvador 1981-92

Nicaragua 1981-90

Iran 1987-88

Libya 1989

Panama 1989-90

Iraq 1991

Kuwait 1991

Somalia 1992-94

Bosnia 1995

Iran 1998

Sudan 1998

Afghanistan 1998

Yugoslavia – Serbia 1999

Afghanistan 2001

Libya 2011

Iraq and Syria 2014 –


When you say that Russia invaded Norway, are you even vaguely aware of what nonsense you spout? Norwegian troops, in concert with Russians, liberated Northern Norway from the fascist German occupation. It was a joint operation between the Norwegian army and the Soviet army, launched from Northern Russia. It was no more an "invasion" than was the return of British troops to the Channel Islands at around the same time in May 1945.

If you are going to make a fool of yourself in such a way, then you might as well claim that France and Poland invaded Norway in 1940.

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