Millions of us might be **** if we ignore the Russian-Ukraine war

[PHXPhlyer]

US finalizing plans to send Patriot missile defense system to Ukraine

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/13/politics ... index.html

The Biden administration is finalizing plans to send the Patriot missile defense system to Ukraine that could be announced as soon as this week, according to two US officials and a senior administration official.

The Pentagon’s plan still needs to be approved by Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin before it is sent to President Joe Biden for his signature. The three officials told CNN that approval is expected.

Ukraine has been calling for the US to send the advanced long-range air defense system that is highly effective at intercepting ballistic and cruise missiles as it comes under a barrage of Russian missile and drone attacks that have destroyed key infrastructure across the country. It would be the most effective long-range defensive weapons system sent to the country and officials say it will help secure airspace for NATO nations in eastern Europe.

It is not clear how many missile launchers will be sent but a typical Patriot battery includes a radar set that detects and tracks targets, computers, power generating equipment, an engagement control station and up to eight launchers, each holding four ready to fire missiles.

Once the plans are finalized, the Patriots are expected to ship quickly in the coming days and Ukrainians will be trained to use them at a US Army base in Grafenwoehr, Germany, officials said.

Ukraine has been asking for the system for months but the logistical challenges of delivering it and operating it are immense. Despite those obstacles, “the reality of what is going on the ground” led the administration to make the decision, the senior administration official told CNN, noting the continuing intense Russian missile barrages.

Unlike smaller air defense systems, Patriot missile batteries need much larger crews, requiring dozens of personnel to properly operate them. The training for Patriot missile batteries normally takes multiple months, a process the United States will now carry out under the pressure of near-daily aerial attacks from Russia.

The system is widely considered one of the most capable long-range weapons to defend airspace against incoming ballistic and cruise missiles as well as some aircraft. Because of its long-range and high-altitude capability, it can potentially shoot down Russian missiles and aircraft far from their intended targets inside Ukraine.

Previously, the US has sent Patriot batteries to NATO allies like Poland as a way to bolster their defenses, and sent other weapon systems to Ukraine to assist against the Russian invasion.

In recent years, the US has sent Patriot missiles to Saudi Arabia and Iraq to counter threats posed by Iran and its proxies and to the Pacific region to deter North Korea.

In total, more than a dozen US allies, including Germany, Japan, and Israel, have also purchased the system.

The US has sent Ukraine mid-range defensive National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems in recent months.

CNN has reached out to the National Security Council for comment.

CNN has previously reported that the Biden administration was considering a move.

Last month US Secretary of State Antony Blinken told CNN that the US is “very focused” on providing air defense systems to Ukraine.

“We’re now very focused on air defense systems and not just us, many other countries,” Blinken told CNN’s Christiane Amanpour.

“And we’re working to make sure that the Ukrainians get those systems as quickly as possible but also as effectively as possible, making sure that they are trained on them, making sure they have the ability to maintain them and all of that has to come together and it is. We have a very deliberate process established by the Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin in Ramstein, Germany, that meets regularly to make sure that the Ukrainians are getting what they need, when they need it.”

PP

[TheGreenAnger]

Amen to the USA...

[prospector]

"You Russian apologists make me sick to the heart!"

What is being Russian apologists for pointing out what was the main cause of this conflict, and disagreeing with the twiterrati who are publishing the number killed on either side as if they were commentating on the score in a football game.??

"
As printed above PHXPlyer

“And we’re working to make sure that the Ukrainians get those systems as quickly as possible but also as effectively as possible, making sure that they are trained on them, making sure they have the ability to maintain them and all of that has to come together and it is. We have a very deliberate process established by the Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin in Ramstein, Germany, that meets regularly to make sure that the Ukrainians are getting what they need, when they need it.”

The Russians are well aware that they are fighting against the whole of NATO. How long before they also decide to escalate this war to worldwide?? Just bare in mind that not all of the world forces agree with USA, perhaps China will now think it is a good time to move in on Taiwan (Formosa). That would rather stretch NATO forces. And how many weapons could then be given to Ukraine?

[TheGreenAnger]

"You Russian apologists make me sick to the heart!"

What is being Russian apologists for pointing out what was the main cause of this conflict, and disagreeing with the twiterrati who are publishing the number killed on either side as if they were commentating on the score in a football game.??

"
As printed above PHXPlyer

“And we’re working to make sure that the Ukrainians get those systems as quickly as possible but also as effectively as possible, making sure that they are trained on them, making sure they have the ability to maintain them and all of that has to come together and it is. We have a very deliberate process established by the Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin in Ramstein, Germany, that meets regularly to make sure that the Ukrainians are getting what they need, when they need it.”

The Russians are well aware that they are fighting against the whole of NATO. How long before they also decide to escalate this war to worldwide?? Just bare in mind that not all of the world forces agree with USA, perhaps China will now think it is a good time to move in on Taiwan (Formosa). That would rather stretch NATO forces. And how many weapons could then be given to Ukraine?

When you are under fire, you are with me or not! It is a binary thing.

[prospector]

Last month US Secretary of State Antony Blinken told CNN that the US is “very focused” on providing air defense systems to Ukraine.

“We’re now very focused on air defense systems and not just us, many other countries,” Blinken told CNN’s Christiane Amanpour.

If people like Antony Blinken were under fire, and a few, hopefully quite a few, of his associates were with him, then maybe the war would end a lot quicker

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Russian army looting in Nova Kakhovka last night.

On the military side of things, this usually means they are pulling out within the week, normally 2-3 days.
There has been mention of at least two other places on the right bank of the Dnipro where the same is happening.
As I mentioned back when Kherson was recaptured, the 15km-20km band closest to the Dnipro is untenable due to Uke arty.
And, as elsewhere, all those Russian fortifications near the river bank are a total waste. Amateurs.

On the political side, of course, they are looting from people they say are Russian citizens.
And this is the logical way to fight against "the whole of NATO"?
Naturally the removal of every civilian washing machine and toilet will cripple NATO's warfighting capability.

The Russians are murderous thieves; and with putin as their example, one isn't the least surprised.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I still think Tokmak is the next main target for the Ukes.

I also think they may swing a big 'left hook', a la Schwarzkopf, in the north. This would involve sweeping up near the Russian border, bypassing Svatove, and coming in on Starobilsk from the north or even the east as well.
They could then isolate the forces in Svatove and await surrender. Meanwhile, after Starobilsk, then can head east to Bilovods'k then south to the high ground that dominates Luhansk's supply routes from the east.

[prospector]

And to you lot no doubt the AZOV battalion was gods gift to shooting up unarmed civilians.

[TheGreenAnger]

And to you lot no doubt the AZOV battalion was gods gift to shooting up unarmed civilians.

You love Russia eh! Your shame is a disgust to manhood! You, hide, like a liar, somewhere in the south.

You are a total c&8n£!

[prospector]

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/inte ... ck-russia/

Try to stick to known proven facts, this is well proven, do not get all emotional, tell me where this article is incorrect.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

You really think that Russia is "fighting the whole of NATO" by invading Ukraine?

It was a smash-and-grab raid that went horribly wrong.

We are on Day 293 of putin's 3 day war.
He had no idea how bad his strategy or tactics were.
He had no idea how bad his logistics were.
He had no idea what a parlous state his stores and reserve forces were in.
He's run out of usable missiles.
His $3 billion bridge has a bloody great hole in it.
And after the first six months, he still had no idea.
What kind of idiot declares territory to be Russian only to lose it 3 weeks later?

putin and his joke band of thieves and looters are getting their @sses kicked.
It's their own fault.

I can genuinely say that the air cadets I used to run could do a better job of "fighting the whole of NATO".
One look at those morons pulling the AFV off the train tells us that.

[prospector]

Sounds good, perhaps you could peruse the following to decide whether Ukraine are on their own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_f ... ainian_War

Yet you say Russia is only fighting Ukraine forces. We have even had that stand up comic on our television talking to our politicians, or not talking, begging for more military assistance

You have not fought for **** all, have you? That is a typical answer to a simple question from you.

Obviously, you are one that denies historical fact. Tell me what is not factual.

Blog/Russia
Posted Dec 9, 2022 by Martin Armstrong
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Merkel has basically said that the Minsk Agreement was to buy time for Ukraine to build up its army and never was there any intention of allowing the Russians in the Donbas to vote on their own future. Merkel admitted that they negotiated in bad faith with Putin simply to allow Ukraine time to fortify itself thereby buying time to build its army. She also said that at the time, NATO was weak and could not provide support to Kyiv to the extent they do currently. The Minsk agreements were signed to pretend to resolve the Donbas conflict.

Angela Merkel_ _Die Zeit



"The region was never Ukrainian territory. It was occupied by Russians for centuries. The people there had a right to their own lives. The Ukrainians demanded they no longer speak Russian and they sought to deny them even their own religion and they were to report to Kyiv – not Moscow. This was like Mexico reclaiming Texas and demanding English was to be outlawed and only Spanish was to be spoken and all religions were to be outlawed except allegiance to the Archbishop of Mexico."

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I would point out that the article contains no quote from Merkel, and the link provided is to the article in the original German, which comes as a pdf and therefore cannot be easily translated.
I would also point out that everyone else around here, certainly myself, does provide links to things in English.
So exactly what "proven facts" are you on about?

And military aid is not "forces". TGA's point stands.

And I await your attempt to show that putin's actions throughout this war, even if he was trying to do what you say he was, are anything other than laughably incompetent.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

The quote you have added is from the article's author, not Merkel, which is what I asked for.
I await Merkel's actual words.
You do understand what a quote is, I presume?
I'm not at all sure the author does.
I was always taught to quote the original source before commenting, and I know for a fact every proper journalist is.
The fact that this author at no point does makes me quite suspicious.

[prospector]

Merkel said that the Minsk agreements were aimed at distracting …
.
Just google it there were many publications stating what Angela Merkel stated.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

"Oops!
This page isn't available"

Pretty unimpressed so far, prospector

[boing]

I am afraid that if you are going to rely on history to justify real estate ownership you must, by "reductio ad absurdom", expect that there will always have been a prior resident. And, when this comes to seasonal usage of grazing areas, you really have a mess because the same grazing areas may easily have been used by several "tribes" simultaneously in a more, or less, peaceful co-existence.

A piece of land down by the river may have been utilised by Ugh and his tribe 5,000 years ago. Does this possession justify Ugh's descendants, based merely on a DNA test, claiming that land and evicting the present owner? No, there has to be a proof that a State with a recognisable administration and a permanent centre existed before you can claim a "nation", the fact that a certain ethnic group rode over it periodically and plundered it or bred their horses there in the spring does not count.

A simple Wikipaedia search reveals.
"The city of Moscow gradually grew around the Moscow Kremlin, beginning in the 14th century."
"The history of Kyiv, also spelled Kiev, officially begins with its founding year as 482, but the city may date back at least 2,000 years."

So, Kiev is older than Moscow, considerably older, since they are 470 miles apart would this not suggest that Kiev actually possessed the land on which Moscow was later built or, at least, the equestrian Cossacks used the area which is now between Kiev and Moscow as their own? This is the difficulty of using previous ownership to justify present rights.

.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

You are the one claiming "proven facts" prospector, and providing no proof at all.

Anyway, have a go at justifying putin's actions, given their obviously massive failure so far.
Try and convince us this will end in anything other than an ignominious defeat for Russia and a decimation of its Armed Forces.
And as for the Russian Armed Forces if they ever were to go up against NATO - well, they wouldn't last five days on this performance.

[prospector]

Time will tell if any "massive failures" have occurred. I get my news from many sources, there are many different stories coming out of Ukraine, here is one of them,

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

..and so we still await a first actual attempt by you to justify anything at all you have posted, or to defend any of the actions putin has taken even if he is trying to do what you say he is.

You're a propagandist who doesn't bother checking any of your "many sources" for yourself.
The previous one was a classic. You claim "proven facts", but there aren't any. You post a dead link, then you tell us to find it for ourselves.
You match the dictionary definition of Charlatan.