The 'Other massacre/Civil war' thread

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The 'Other massacre/Civil war' thread

#1 Post by admin2 » Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:45 am

As per request

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Re: A Forgotten Massacre

#2 Post by Undried Plum » Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:46 pm

'Civil war' must be the greatest of all oxymorons in European languages.

I remember, when working in Western Andalucia in the late 1980s, being astonished just how fresh the memories were of their civil war in the minds of the older generation. One memory is of a small town called Zahara de los Atunes near Barbate de Franco. I remember two elderly ladies, dressed in the black garb of widowhood, screaming coño at eachother across a dusty street and making finger, hand and arm gestures of a type which I had previously thought to be rather AngloSaxon.

My local translator girlie, whose grandfather and great uncle had fought on opposite sides, explained to me that the two old crones were actually sisters and that their husbands had fought and died on opposite of that "civil" war.

There is something rather apelike about war, but so called civil wars seem to me to be the most savage of all.

Let's not forget that our own most recent civil war only came to an end in 1746. The house that I'm sitting in was built in the 18th century on the proceeds of the then Laird having backed the winning side in both the '15 and '45 rebellions. Lands belonging to the losing side were confiscated by the winning side. He built the house in the late 1740s and then added the new wing in the 1770s. I have several tonnes of split logs that came from beech trees that he had had planted in that decade. In winter time, that's a perceptible direct connection with our own civil war in Scotland.

There were actually more Scotsmen on the German side at Culloden than on the Jacobite side, but that a discussion for another topic.

On the subject of massacres, one which is seldom mentioned is the massive scale of the massacre(s) of Germans by Poles after the War was over. It's not politically correct for the MSM to mention that. After all, the Poles were on our side.

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Re: A Forgotten Massacre

#3 Post by John Hill » Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:56 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:46 pm
On the subject of massacres, one which is seldom mentioned is the massive scale of the massacre(s) of Germans by Poles after the War was over. It's not politically correct for the MSM to mention that. After all, the Poles were on our side.
Massacres by 'our side' in Afghanistan, Korea, Iraq and no doubt a host of other countries, they are known but never mentioned.
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Re: A Forgotten Massacre

#4 Post by Undried Plum » Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:00 pm

John Hill wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:56 pm
Massacres by 'our side' in Afghanistan, Korea, Iraq and no doubt a host of other countries, they are known but never mentioned.
Hence, they become forgotten. In some dark quarters they even become banned from discussion, which enforces their forgottenness.

Somehow, through some dark alchemy, the suppression of knowledge of a massacre enables the next one. And so it goes on.

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Re: The 'Other massacre/Civil war' thread

#5 Post by John Hill » Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:55 am

I understand there is a veritable copyright on the word 'Holocaust' so to which unfortunate group of people should we award exclusive rights to the word 'Massacre'?
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Re: The 'Other massacre/Civil war' thread

#6 Post by Undried Plum » Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:18 pm

And yet the Nakba is practically unknown in the English speaking world. It's almost as if it never happened and as if it is not an ongoing thing, which it is. It truly is "A Forgotten Massacre". Not allowed to be mentioned in some quarters in that context though. 8-|

Also, I guess if you were to ask 100 randomly picked Brits who suffered in the HolocaustTM probably 99% would name one ethnic group and would be unaware that the Romanies suffered an even worse fatality rate proportionally.

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Re: The 'Other massacre/Civil war' thread

#7 Post by Mrs Ex-Ascot » Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:31 pm

Now this is an interesting article despite being from the DM; https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... sacre.html

Shame that witnessning Babi-Yar didn't put him off mass murder.......... [-(
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Re: A Forgotten Massacre

#8 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:13 am

There's a somewhat forgotten massacre that I'd like to relate here in some detail. It's not totally forgotten locally within Norway, but outside the country it's almost unknown nowadays.

The Shetland Bus is well known and I won't describe it here other than to mention that it was a shuttle of Norwegian fishing boats which ran munitions and agents into Occupied Norway and brought back refugees who were in the run from the Gestapo. They visited many parts of Western and Northern norway, but two of the principal bases their operated into were Telavåg and Ålesund.

On 20th April 1942 a small Norwegian fishing boat called Olav delivered two special forces operatives to a remote village in Western Norway. They were sheltered in the loft of a Good Norwegian, pending radio instructions from the UK as to how to proceed with the mission which was necessarily somewhat fluid. They had been trained to a very advanced level as commandos in the highlands of Scotland and were part of Kaptein Martin Linge's Kompanie. They were what in modern parlance of an American Occupying Power would be called high value targets.

A Bad Norwegian betrayed them to the Gestapo, who raided the small semi-islet which is part of the island of Sotra. The island had no bridge to the mainland and no paved roads and only had one car, which was coloured purple and was known locally as The Plum. I promise I'm not making any of this up.

Two SS officers and ten SS troops and a couple of Gestapo officers and couple of NS(Nazi) Secret Police showed up in a boat to arrest the two SOE guys. A gunfight ensued in which both Linge guys were shot, one fatally immediately and the other gravely wounded. Both SS officers died on the spot. One of them was a close personal friend of ReichsKommissar Josef Terbofen who immediately decreed that the village (pop 400) should be erased from the face of the Earth.

The entire village was dynamited. Not a house nor outhouse nor boathouse was left in other than rubble and smoking ash. All boats were taken or sunk. All livestock was taken. The men were sent to interrogations centres, some to be be tortured to death and others summarily executed. The 270+ women and children were taken to prison camps and separated.

Additionally, 18 prisoners from Ålesund taken a couple of months earlier on suspicion of having been involved in the "Shetland Gang", who were being held in the hell-hole that was

The male householders of the Good Norwegian household were taken to Bergen for interrogation, some to death. The rest aged 16 to 60 were sent to Sachsenhausen where most of them perished and most of the survivors perished from the ardure of four years, later after liberation.

The women and children, aged from 12 weeks to 97 years old, were sent to a prison camp elsewhere in Norway, where they were separated.

When reviewing and fact-checking the basis and narrative of this post, which is necessarily cut short anyway, I discovered several interesting factoids.

The prior voyage of Olav carried an SOE operative from Lunna to the same destination. His task was to set up as many Resistance networks as he could around Oslo.

His name was Stor Tor (Big Tor).

He successfully set up several networks around Oslo.

He was rumbled by the Gestapo and was 'turned'. As a double agent of the dark side, he arranged for the obliteration of the people involved in his network. Many many Norwegians died terrible deaths as a result of his treachery. He escaped to Sweden and then back to the UK. Incredibly, to me, he was promoted to the ranks of Instructor within the SOE and after the War he lived in Norway with semi-high rank in the army until a dignified retirement.

Funny how that works, innit.

I discovered that one of the doctors who looked after the children in SouthEastern Norway discovered that the Germans intended to deport the 100+ children to Germany and to a uncretain fate. He, an international expert in biology and virology, having been trained at Johns Hopkins and at the Louie Pasteur Institute, and being on top of his game he took a hell of a risk. He vaccinated the children against diptheria but deliberately infected two or three of them with live diptheria baccillus. He was able to show the Germans that at least one of the children, and perhaps all of them, was already infected with the highly infectious baccilus. One hell of a risk either way, when you think of it.

Cell culture, to preserve true civilian culture: brilliant!

The Germans crapped themselves because none of them wanted to be the one who signed off the order for the importation into the Heimat of known disease-carrying children. So the children were never deported to Germany to meet whatever fate had been planned for them. A brilliant result, I think. A helluva risk.

Another minor little factoidlet is that I looked up the location that where the 18 Ålesunders were summarily quite promptly executed in the aforesaid semi-unforgotten massacre.

Not a nice place. It clocked up 170 Noggies and 10 Brits and a few Poles. All chucked into pits under those/these nowaday trees. It's located immediately adjacent to the NorthEastern fence of what is now Oslo Gardermoen airport. It's still in use as a prison camp currently being used as a keeptank for illegal immigrants, both incoming and outgoing.

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