Another mass shooting, but the system is working!

[boing]

There would be less demand for guns if there was effective policing to protect society.

Which political group has an extreme arm that advocates reduced policing?
Which political group is represented by DA's that allow repeat criminals on the streets?
Which political group prefers open borders with the crime that this inevitably causes?
Which political group prefers homelessness to mental or drug treatment?

This is a no-brainer. Did we have this crime and death problem to the same extreme in the Clinton and Obama administrations or the Trump administration? No, these problems all occurred after Biden took office. A glove-puppet President operated by the crazy extreme of his party who have hooked themselves so tightly to their fantasies that the can't back down. Unfortunately the latest nationwide gun death totals are not yet available but it is plain to see from individual city figures that 2022 is going to be horrible.

Since the number of guns in circulation in the US has not increased greatly in the last few years why have gun deaths increased? Try lax law enforcement bought about by head-in-the-clouds politicians.

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[Karearea]

Re effective policing, I see that the following agencies contributed the 376 responders to the Uvalde shooting in May, and I wonder how well they co-ordinate, and what are the differences between the agencies?

Source: Zack Briggs on Twitter

The breakdown of responders, by agency, is as follows:
149 United States Border Patrol
91 Texas Department of Public Safety
25 Uvalde Police Department
16 San Antonio Police Department (SWAT)
16 Uvalde County Sheriff's Office
14 Department of Homeland Security - HIS
13 United States Marshals
8 Drug Enforcement Agency
7 Frio County Sheriff's Office
5 Kinney County Sheriff's Office
5 Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District
4 Dilley Police Department
4 Zavala County Sheriff's Office
3 Medina County Sheriff's Office
3 Sabinal Police Department
2 City of Uvalde Fire Marshals
2 Pearsall Police Department
2 Texas Parks and Wildlife
2 Uvalde County Constables
2 Val Verde Country Sheriff's Office
1 Frio County Constables
1 Southwest Texas Junior College
1 Zavala County Constables

[John Hill]

There would be less demand for guns if there was effective policing to protect society.

Demand is not the issue as carrying a gun is the sacred right of all Americans.

[boing]

The sacred right may be of value to some but the average man has the common sense to understand you don't take a flashlight to a gun fight. The average level of training can be questioned but the logic is simple and undeniable, if someone is breaking down your door at 2am any firearm with any training is better than pretending to make a noise like a guard dog. You may not be Wyatt Earp but you may be Lucky Jim and that is all that matters.

Now, almost certainly the average man does not want the complication in life created by a firearm but it has certain advantages over being beaten near to death or worse and actually trained firearms users are great people to have around if things go wrong, ask the Ukrainians about their volunteer forces and the Swiss reserves.

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[TheGreenAnger]

The sacred right may be of value to some but the average man has the common sense to understand you don't take a flashlight to a gun fight. The average level of training can be questioned but the logic is simple and undeniable, if someone is breaking down your door at 2am any firearm with any training is better than pretending to make a noise like a guard dog. You may not be Wyatt Earp but you may be Lucky Jim and that is all that matters.

Now, almost certainly the average man does not want the complication in life created by a firearm but it has certain advantages over being beaten near to death or worse and actually trained firearms users are great people to have around if things go wrong, ask the Ukrainians about their volunteer forces and the Swiss reserves.

I agree (seriously) and wonder if you have ever thought of a tour, and a series of training seminars in SA?

[John Hill]

The sacred right may be of value to some but the average man has the common sense to understand you don't take a flashlight to a gun fight.

It appears your 'average man' is not one who makes the decisions in your country. We have seen the uproar that erupts at any suggestion of limiting or controlling possession of firearms and the 'average man' just gets shouted down.

We know the choices are more guns, less guns and stay the same. Less guns is blocked by the sacred writings and stay the same has a high cost leaving the only available option 'Guns For Everyone'.

Everyone should be provided with a gun and new citizens should be given theirs' at the maternity clinic.


GUNS FOR EVERYONE AND EVERYONE WILL BE SAFE!

[TheGreenAnger]

The sacred right may be of value to some but the average man has the common sense to understand you don't take a flashlight to a gun fight.

It appears your 'average man' is not one who makes the decisions in your country. We have seen the uproar that erupts at any suggestion of limiting or controlling possession of firearms and the 'average man' just gets shouted down.

We know the choices are more guns, less guns and stay the same. Less guns is blocked by the sacred writings and stay the same has a high cost leaving the only available option 'Guns For Everyone'.

Everyone should be provided with a gun and new citizens should be given theirs' at the maternity clinic.


GUNS FOR EVERYONE AND EVERYONE WILL BE SAFE!

John, clearly, a civilized society, dare I say, a place like NZ doesn't need guns, but here we are talking about the USA, and South Africa, both in precipitous collapse in their own ways and in a different daze!

[llondel]

Which political group prefers homelessness to mental or drug treatment?

Actually, this one goes back to Reagan and care in the community when various measures caused a lot of places dealing with mental health to close.

[boing]

Reagan is long gone. My reference was to a current group which just happens to be the one in power who could do something about the situation when they get their pronouns organised.

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[boing]

Thank you for your support John. You must have been reading recent articles showing that, in a combination of groups with varying interests, 60% of Americans support the right to bear arms.

If you slant the question by asking how many Americans support stricter gun control 53% said they supported this approach but, of course, this by no means indicates that people in this group want a change to a ban on gun ownership completely. Incidentally most of this data is actually out of date, the number of people who support gun ownership has increased in the last two years but this is only documented at the city and state level because the numbers have not been processed by the Federal Government yet.

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[John Hill]

60% of Americans support the right to bear arms.

Of course they do or at least say they do as that is a tenet of the state religion.

[boing]

I'm intrigued John, please tell me more about this state religion. I never realised that the First Amendment, which contains the protection of religious freedoms and prevents State sponsored religions, was so supportive of the Second Amendment.

However, since you got the percentage of the US population supporting the Second Amendment wrong perhaps your knowledge of the First Amendment is shaky also.

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[John Hill]

You should spend time in countries such as Afghanistan, Iraq or any others of the host of theocracies to be found in the world today.

N.B. I do not count experience in US military occupation forces as useful experience of the occupied society.

[Undried Plum]

Having made an arse of draughting the constitution, they hurriedly cobbled together a cut 'n paste job from the English/British Bill of Rights. They bolloxed that too, for example by failing to emphasise that the 2nd amendment was intended to exist within the context of a well regulated militia. Very very few of the mass killings by gunfire take place within the regulations and activities of a well regulated militia.

As for 'state religion': the US is as close to being a theocracy as it's possible to be without formally declaring itself to be one. To a newcoming visitor who travels extensively across the continental US by road, it's astonishing how many churches there are in even quite small towns.

No American politician would ever dare to make a public speech without adding religious incantations. No US banknote is ever printed without a religious invocation.

[John Hill]

As for 'state religion': the US is as close to being a theocracy as it's possible to be without formally declaring itself to be one.

Exactly! The sheeple become immersed in a flood of quasi religious and patriotic clap trap and when any controversial subject arises it can be readily settled by invoking a convenient interpretation of holy scriptures. Gun rights and abortion are obvious examples.

That is the way it works in A'ghanistan and also how it works in the USA.

[Dushan]

Americans will never be safe going to the mall until they are all armed and I look forward to the next President's program to grant arms to all those who do not have guns already.

You still don't understand it, do you?

"The People" have the right to bear arms and the Government cannot infringe that right.

[Boac]

Actually, Dushan, i think it is you that does not understand (you are not alone). It is the misinterpretation (by many) of the intent behind "the right to bear arms" that is causing all the problems and I agree with JH that the only logical and do-able solution is to arm all. By doing so there would be no 'infringement' and you surely would be happy. The 2nd complete - in all its glorious freedom.

[John Hill]

You still don't understand it, do you?

"The People" have the right to bear arms and the Government cannot infringe that right.

Like I said

The sheeple become immersed in a flood of quasi religious and patriotic clap trap and when any controversial subject arises it can be readily settled by invoking a convenient interpretation of holy scriptures. Gun rights and abortion are obvious examples.

[boing]

BOAC

Excuse me pointing this out but how the heck are you, as an individual, qualified to re-interpret a concept and guidelines that have served the US well for over 200 years? The Constitution was created by a group of libertarian thinkers at a time when Britain was still controlled by a lunatic monarch with sole powers, the Constitution has been re-evaluated and, yes, changed as required over it's life. There is a whole section of Government whose sole purpose is to examine any significant changes in US law to ensure conformity with the Constitution which is an excellent check on government overreach.

Critics love to say the Constitution is outdated ignoring the fact that it has been amended 27 times with several additional amendments under consideration. The Constitution can be amended, it is simply that the process ensures this cannot be done frivolously or on the whim of a President. Very sound thinking.

As far as the Second Amendment is concerned you must see that discussions over the years have been based upon the intent of the framers. The duty of the legal system and the Supreme Court is to ensure correct interpretation of the original document not to re-write it, that is the function of amendments. You cannot blame anyone for failing to interpret the Constitution to fit your beliefs or those of anyone else, that is not their job. If you feel so strongly please come to the US and start a movement to amend the 2nd. Of course, you will be one of dozens of organisations with the same intent who have all failed over the years. Why have they failed? Quite simply because there are not enough popular votes to permit amendment so please continue to be confused and frustrated but remember that your position is opposed by over 50% of the population of the US or the 2nd would have been amended. Ironically, it is the Second Amendment that prevents the other provisions of the Constitution from being subverted including the right to criticise it.

Tying the Second Amendment to street violence is a completely bogus argument. The Second Amendment only concerns the right to bear arms, it is the job of routine legislation and law enforcement to ensure this is done according to the current law and it is this enforcement which is presently failing the country.


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[Dushan]

You still don't understand it, do you?

"The People" have the right to bear arms and the Government cannot infringe that right.

Like I said

The sheeple become immersed in a flood of quasi religious and patriotic clap trap and when any controversial subject arises it can be readily settled by invoking a convenient interpretation of holy scriptures. Gun rights and abortion are obvious examples.

Gun rights are definitely there in the Bill of Rights. The word "abortion" is nowhere to be found in the declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Federalist Papers, and any other document considered as a founding fathers' core documentation.

You really need to try harder...