NATO/SEATO/WHATOH/OH-OH

[admin2]

Diversionary thread from the Ukraine war thread.

"Please follow the diversion signs."

[prospector]

""Nobody in the west (except prospector) appears to believe a word of it any more, so they appear to have given up aiming propaganda at the west""
The majority of the worlds population, China, India, South Africa, Brazil, have had enough of NATO crap, they have even been trying to convince New Zealand to be part of NATO, ie the American Industrial/military complex. Apparently, that is so all the Pacific nations are going to be primed up for their war against China, I would imagine the way things are going the Americans are going to be bankrupt before to long. The Chinese have spent billions on the new the Belt and Road project, the Americans have spent billions destroying Ukraine.

[Karearea]

... trying to convince New Zealand to be part of NATO ...

Not wanting to divert the thread, but NZ has always regarded the NATO countries as our allies;
of course our geographic location precludes us being part of it.

[John Hill]

Not wanting to divert the thread, but NZ has always regarded the NATO countries as our allies;

Well maybe, but I fear it is a very lopsided relationship.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Restarting SEATO would appear to be more logical.

[prospector]

":but NZ has always regarded the NATO countries as our allies""

If one is not planning a war somewhere in the world, as NATO has for many years, why does one need allies? surely partners would be a better word? There is no need to state again the number of conflicts NATO/USA has been involved in the last 20 years, how many have they won? how much money has been made reconstructing what somebody? made a fortune destroying.

Restarting SEATO, perhaps, but could prove difficult as New Zealand still bans any nuclear powered or armed ships from our waters.
How we could detect any nuclear powered submarines still remains a mystery

{Diversion ended?).

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

NATO has been in one operation in the last 20 years, Operation Deliberate Forge, ending in 2004. It was a success.
NATO countries participating in operations does not equal NATO participating. Stop trying to pretend it does.

[Pontius Navigator]

Partners - Allies
I believe at one time the USSR, Sweden and others were Partners.
Other European countries were Allies.

[John Hill]

NATO has been in one operation in the last 20 years, Operation Deliberate Forge, ending in 2004. It was a success.
NATO countries participating in operations does not equal NATO participating. Stop trying to pretend it does.

Of course, participation of NATO countries in Afghanistan did not qualify as NATO participation otherwise it would have been a success!

[John Hill]

Restarting SEATO would appear to be more logical.

What sort of record did SEATO have? Did SEATO save Vietnam?

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Of course, participation of NATO countries in Afghanistan did not qualify as NATO participation otherwise it would have been a success!

NATO is a defensive alliance. At no point has NATO strategy envisaged occupying anywhere, and that's entirely sensible for the reason you point out.

Countries, like people, are capable of being entirely sensible in one area of life and criminally stupid in others.

And if Vietnam, Invading Iraq, and Afghanistan show anything, it is that politicians are not only criminally stupid, but that they will keep picking and firing Generals until they get some who will promise them that the impossible is possible.
Or, in putin's case, picking someone who isn't even a General but will play military dress-up.

[prospector]

"" The current Strategic Concept (2022) reaffirms that NATO’s key purpose is to ensure the collective defence of its members, based on a 360-degree approach, and outlines three essential core tasks – deterrence and defence, crisis prevention and management, and cooperative security.""

For how long has Ukraine been a member of NATO??

[John Hill]

Read this page https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_8189.htm to gain enlightenment in the non-involvement of NATO in Afghanistan.

[John Hill]

And if Vietnam, Invading Iraq, and Afghanistan show anything, it is that politicians are not only criminally stupid, but that they will keep picking and firing Generals until they get some who will promise them that the impossible is possible.
Or, in putin's case, picking someone who isn't even a General but will play military dress-up.

So what is this? The military find themselves unable to do the job they were sent to do and that is the fault of the politicians?

[prospector]

https://www.rt.com/news/576588-resistan ... aign=Email

""American elites are starting to concede that the world is rebelling against the US, and Washington has nobody to blame but itself""

""Russia and the rest of the world, unable to counter the superior US military might, largely sat back and took this. But anger and resentment grew, for none of these wars were necessary or just. They were wars of choice, which the US waged to protect what it saw as its economic and geopolitical interests, all the while dressing up its actions as “humanitarian.” As a rule they claimed these interventions as necessary to protect the target country’s population from an “oppressive,” “brutal” or “dictatorial” regime. While Americans largely bought into such justifications, the rest of the world grimaced at the patent absurdity. """

While the US tries to claim that the whole world stands with it in opposing Russia’s actions, in Ukraine, this is simply not true, and US officials know it. “The world” supports the US only if one excludes Latin America, Asia and Africa. These regions, home to most of the planet’s population, did not and do not support the Americans. Many countries in these regions are weary of the US intervening in their backyards at will in the form of aggressive wars, coups d’etat and the support of armed insurgents, and they were happy to see that someone – namely Russia – was finally fighting back. Meanwhile, even Saudi Arabia, a long-time ally and co-conspirator of the US in its imperial machinations, has broken ranks with the US by refusing to boost oil supplies. It has additionally begun engaging with Iran, demonstrating that the world is getting fed up with Washington’s meddling.

.

[prospector]

As if the Ukraine Government did not have enough on its plate,

https://www.rt.com/russia/577318-ukrain ... aign=Email

ECHR finds Kiev in breach of gay rights
""Kiev was ordered to pay damages to a gay couple over its repeated refusal to register their marriage""

[Pinky the pilot]

Does the ECHR actually have the authority to enforce its decisions?

Or could Kiev tell them to Far Cough?

[unifoxos]

Or could Kiev tell them to Far Cough?
Don't know about that but I wish our wimpy politicos had the guts for it.

[bob2s]

I wonder if our Gay couple are out and about with a rifle in hand ???

[prospector]

A more accurate description of why this conflict started, and the reasons for it.