More Boeing Bad News

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#601 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:35 am

For the uber nerds here...

https://prattwhitney.com/products-and-s ... pw4000-112
PW4000-112 ENGINE

The 112-inch-fan PW4000 is an ultra-high-thrust model covering the 74,000 to 98,000-pound-thrust class to meet the requirements for the Boeing 777 –200/-200ER/-300twinjets. It was the launch engine for the 777, entering service in 1995.

The PW4084, with 84,000 pounds of thrust, was the first engine to enter service already approved for 180-minute ETOPS and has subsequently been approved for 207 minutes, the maximum allowable, along with all the other PW4000-112 inch models. A higherthrust model, the PW4090, with 90,000 pounds of thrust, powers an increased-grossweight version of the 777. And the 98,000-pound-thrust PW4098 currently powers the777 up to 660,000 lbs take-off weight.

The 112-inch PW4000 also is our largest commercial engine, its diameter nearly as wideas the fuselage of a Boeing 737. Using hollow titanium, shroudless fan blades, the PW4000 provides high efficiency and low noise along with superb resistance to foreign object damage.In addition to being the market-experience leader, the PW4000-112 on the 777 has thebest-in-class reliability statistics, attributable to its mature, derivative, high technologydesign and validation methodology.

Engine Characteristics
Fan tip diameter: 112 inches
Length, flange to flange: 191.7 inches
Takeoff thrust: 74,000 - 98,000 pounds of thrust
Flat rated temperature: 86 degrees F
Bypass ratio: 5.8-to-1 to 6.4-to-1
Overall pressure ratio: 34.2 - 42.8
Fan pressure ratio: 1.70 - 1.80
PW.JPG
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#602 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:26 pm

A hard rain falls again...
Dutch authorities are investigating after a Boeing 747-400 cargo plane dropped engine parts shortly after takeoff from Maastricht airport.

The Longtail Aviation Flight 5504 cargo plane scattered mostly small metal parts over the southern Dutch town of Meerssen on Saturday, causing damage to cars and lightly injuring one woman, local media said.

Boeing referred questions to Dutch authorities.

“Our investigation is still in a preliminary phase, it is too early to draw conclusions,” a spokeswoman for the Dutch Safety Board said on Monday.

Witnesses said they saw fire in one of the engines of the plane, which landed safely at Liège airport in Belgium, 19 miles (30km) south of Maastricht.

The cargo plane, which was supposed to fly from the Netherlands to New York, used a Pratt & Whitney PW4000 engine, a smaller version of one on a United Airlines Boeing 777 involved in an incident on Saturday.
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#603 Post by PHXPhlyer » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:38 pm

Another safety scare is the last thing Boeing needs

By Julia Horowitz, CNN Business
Updated 8:24 AM ET, Mon February 22, 2021

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/22/investin ... index.html

London (CNN Business)Boeing has spent years trying to assure customers, regulators and the public that its planes are safe. That job may have just gotten harder.

What's happening: Airlines in the United States, South Korea and Japan have grounded dozens of Boeing 777 aircraft after one of the jets suffered engine failure Saturday, sending debris crashing down over Denver.
Boeing (BA) on Sunday recommended that airlines stop flying versions of the aircraft that are equipped with Pratt & Whitney 4000-112 engines while US authorities investigate the Denver incident. Of those, 69 had been in service and 59 are in storage, the plane maker said.

Shares of the company are down 3% in premarket trading after they rallied 4.3% on Friday.
Boeing, a giant of American industry, was once seen as a safe bet for investors who believed in the strength of the US economy.
But the jet maker has struggled since the grounding of its 737 Max plane in March 2019 following two crashes that killed 346 people. The US Federal Aviation Administration didn't lift the restrictions until November of last year.
That sent Boeing, which has also been hit by a plunge in air travel from the pandemic, to a record loss of nearly $12 billion in 2020.
CEO Dave Calhoun had warned that the coming months would still be difficult. In January, the company said it would delay the first delivery of its newest jet, the 777X, back to 2023. The long-range plane was designed to be used mostly on international travel.
Downsizing is also set to continue. Boeing expects to reduce staff to 130,000 by the end of 2021, down from 161,000 at the start of 2020.
Before this past weekend, there were signs that the company was finally finding its footing. Boeing delivered 26 jets in January, helping to ease a backlog of more than 400 737 Max jets that were built but couldn't be delivered during the 20-month grounding. The company gets most of its money from plane sales at the time of delivery.
But the latest crisis, which comes at a moment when Boeing desperately needs to rebuild trust, could blunt this momentum.
Investor insight: Shares of Boeing have rebounded 129% from their recent March low, outperforming rival Airbus (EADSF), but remain 48% below where they stood two years ago. The company's stock price makes clear that Boeing is still reeling from the 737 Max saga and coronavirus. Adding another problem to the mix won't help.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#604 Post by G-CPTN » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:00 pm

Is this a Boeing problem or a P&W problem?

I realise that Boeing is the name on the aircraft, but it's the P&W bit that is causing the upset.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#605 Post by PHXPhlyer » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:12 pm

P&W and airline problem.
There are three engine options for the 777.
From Wikipedia: The initial 777-200 model was launched with propulsion options from three manufacturers, General Electric, Pratt & Whitney, and Rolls-Royce,[51] giving the airlines their choice of engines from competing firms.[52] Each manufacturer agreed to develop an engine in the 77,000 lbf (340 kN) and higher thrust class (a measure of jet engine output) for the world's largest twinjet.[51]

You pays your money and takes your chances. :-? :-ss
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#606 Post by 1DC » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:24 pm

Once you pick an engine are you stuck with it or is it easy to change?

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#607 Post by CremeEgg » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:32 pm

Engines are easy enough to change - type for type simple replacement - many YouTube videos available of 777 engine changes in time lapse.

I believe that each engine manufacturer has a slightly different pylon and attachments so unless one spends significant amounts of cash you are stuck with the engine type you started off with. Not to mention the various bits of plumbing and doubtless huge amounts of computer trickery.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#608 Post by ian16th » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:52 pm

Isn't the B-787 the 1st a/c to have interchangeable engines?

GE, P&W or RR can all be fitted to the same pylon?

Even a different make on each wing at the same time?
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#609 Post by Rwy in Sight » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:12 pm

I didn't know the last bit but I can confirm the first and I guess it was one of the issues that put a strain on the program.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#610 Post by llondel » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:58 am

How easy is it to change a wing pylon? I assume at the top end it must be a common mounting or they'd be building three variants of wing. Change the engine and pylon at the same time.

You'd have to train your maintenance crew on the new engine, I doubt if they have the same requirements.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#611 Post by Wodrick » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:29 am

llondel wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:58 am
How easy is it to change a wing pylon? I assume at the top end it must be a common mounting or they'd be building three variants of wing. Change the engine and pylon at the same time.

You'd have to train your maintenance crew on the new engine, I doubt if they have the same requirements.
A pylon change would be a serious task unless designed to be changed, they are riveted assemblies not attached with screws.

Maintenance training can include different engines my licence has both A330/RR Trent and A330/CF6 80C2 both done on the same course.
Ditto A320 cfm56 and V2500.
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/ITORRO10?cm_ven=localwx_pwsdash

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#612 Post by Rwy in Sight » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:58 am

Can the pylon be removed from the wing? If yes why not have common attaching point on the pylon?

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#613 Post by ian16th » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:44 am

OK, I know its from Wiki, but the B-787 page says:
The two different engine models compatible with the 787 use a standard electrical interface to allow an aircraft to be fitted with either Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 or General Electric GEnx-1B engines. This interchangeability aims to save time and cost when changing engine types;[4] while previous aircraft could exchange engines for those of a different manufacturer, the high cost and time required made it rare.[246][247] In 2006, Boeing addressed reports of an extended change period by stating that the 787 engine swap was intended to take 24 hours.[247]
This quotes 'electrical interface' not physical. But surely there is no point of having one without the other?
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#614 Post by PHXPhlyer » Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:47 pm

Boeing 777 makes emergency landing in Moscow after engine sensor problem

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/boei ... m-n1258950

Boeing 777 makes emergency landing in Moscow after engine sensor problem
The plane was a 15-year-old 777-300ER, according to flight-tracking website FlightRadar24, which means it has General Electric engines.
Feb. 26, 2021, 9:16 AM MST / Source: Reuters
By Reuters
MOSCOW — A Rossiya Airlines Boeing 777 cargo plane made an emergency landing at Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport on Friday due to a problem with an engine control sensor, the airline said.

The plane was a 15-year-old 777-300ER, according to flight-tracking website FlightRadar24, which means it has General Electric engines.

Those are different from the Pratt & Whitney PW4000 engines under scrutiny after an engine fire aboard a United Airlines 777 on Saturday which prompted the suspension of operations involving planes using those engines.

General Electric did not immediately respond to a Reuters request for comment.

Russian airlines operate Boeing 777-300ER planes equipped with General Electric GE90-115B engines, federal aviation agency Rosaviatsiya said on Wednesday said, adding it was not considering suspending operation of those aircraft.

Rossiya Airlines Flight 4520, traveling from Hong Kong to Madrid, touched down in Moscow, data from Flightradar24 showed.

Rossiya Airlines, a unit of Russian state carrier Aeroflot, said the crew requested the landing at the airline's base airport in Moscow.

"The landing took place normally," Rossiya said in a statement, adding that the flight would continue to Madrid on Friday.

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OOPS! Misread that they were considering suspending operation of those aircraft.
Rosaviatsiya said on Wednesday said, adding it was not considering suspending operation of those aircraft.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#615 Post by PHXPhlyer » Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:00 pm

737 Max airborne again, but Boeing bedeviled by 787 Dreamliner problems

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business ... story.html

737 Max airborne again, but Boeing bedeviled by 787 Dreamliner problems
By JULIE JOHNSSON, BLOOMBERG NEWS
TRIBUNE NEWS SERVICE |
FEB 24, 2021 AT 10:33 AM


Boeing Co.’s hunt for the source of manufacturing flaws with its 787 Dreamliner extends deep into its supply chain, a sign the planemaker risks further delays as it works to resolve issues that have halted deliveries of the jetliner since October.

Spirit AeroSystems Holdings, which makes the Dreamliner’s nose and cockpit, is at Boeing’s request conducting an engineering analysis of so-called “noncomformities” on its portion of the carbon-fiber frame, Spirit Chief Executive Officer Tom Gentile told analysts Tuesday.

Gentile spoke less than a day after a key 787 buyer, Air Lease Corp., cautioned that production issues “seem to have mushroomed” for the twin-aisle jet. “There’s just greater and greater levels of inspections going on,” John Plueger, CEO of the Los Angeles-based aircraft lessor, said on an earnings call Monday. “As yet today, it’s difficult to see a definitive fix that is agreeable by the aviation authorities and all going forward.”

The threat of worsening delays adds to the pressure on Boeing as executives try to forge a turnaround after one of the toughest years in the company’s centurylong history. The Chicago-based planemaker’s path to generating cash over the next two years, after burning through $20 billion last year, depends on its ability to unwind more than 500 jets — mainly Dreamliners and 737 Max — that have stacked up in inventory.

Dave Calhoun, Boeing’s CEO, said last month that the company aimed to resume Dreamliner shipments during the first quarter with “most likely very few, if any in February” and clear most of the jets in inventory this year. A spokesman declined to offer further comments beyond the CEO’s remarks.

Delayed deliveries
Boeing already had 80 Dreamliners stashed around its factories and in a desert storage yard at the start of the year. To meet Calhoun’s annual goal, the manufacturer would need to deliver around 130 of the aircraft into a depressed market for long-range jets, assuming production stays at planned rates, Seth Seifman, analyst with J.P. Morgan, wrote in a report earlier this month.

“The problem, of course, is that long-range international travel has barely budged off the bottom and should take longest to recover,” Seifman said. “This adds risk to Boeing’s delivery plans” and 2021 free cash flow.

Some of the wide-body jets due to be delivered to Air Lease have been delayed more than 12 months, giving the company and its customers the right to bolt from their original contracts, Plueger said.

“It’s still an unfolding story,” Plueger said. “I wish I could say definitively that there’s an end to it.”

Search for clues
After it shifts Seattle-area Dreamliner production to South Carolina next month, Boeing plans to use the freed-up space to inspect and repair tiny imperfections that have cropped up on the interior lining of the jets’ carbon-fiber airframes. The process, which can take weeks, involves ripping up a jet’s cabin to search for flaws about the width of a human hair.

Boeing asked Wichita, Kansas-based Spirit to dig deeper into the issues on the portion of the 787 it manufactures, with the engineering analysis based on the planemaker’s investigation into other portions of the jet, Gentile said during an earnings call Tuesday. The company has also done “rework” in some instances “so that they can resume their deliveries sooner,” he said of Boeing.

From its engineering studies, Spirit expects to learn whether the area with surface roughness is acceptable as is or will require repairs. And based on what it discovers, the aerostructures manufacturer may need to change Dreamliner production processes, Gentile said.

“We’re learning a lot from this engineering analysis in terms of things like tools and processes,” Gentile said. “And we will make any improvements that we think are necessary as a result of that analysis going forward.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#616 Post by PHXPhlyer » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:30 pm

Actually. some good news.


United, predicting a rebound in travel, buys 25 Boeing 737 Max jets

Chris Isidore byline
By Chris Isidore, CNN Business

Updated 1:44 PM ET, Mon March 1, 2021
New York (CNN Business)United Airlines disclosed Monday one of its largest orders for the Boeing 737 Max jet since the aircraft was grounded in March 2019, agreeing to buy an additional 25 planes.

The airline also accelerated the delivery timetable for 45 other 737 Max jets it had previously ordered. United said the decision was based on its belief that the recovery in air travel will be firmly in place by next year.
"With a number of our aircraft nearing the end of their lifecycle and the growth opportunities that we know will exist in the Covid-19 recovery period, this agreement will help us to grow as demand returns and renew our fleet with more environmentally friendly, customer-pleasing aircraft," United Chief Commercial Officer Andrew Nocella said in a memo to employees.
The news lifted shares of both United (UAL) and Boeing (BA) by more than 4% in morning trading. Shares of other major US airlines were also higher.
United reached the agreement to buy the planes on Friday and disclosed the deal in its annual filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission on Monday. The carrier also disclosed that it had moved up deliveries of 40 planes to 2022, plus five more that it will have delivered in 2023. United now has more than 180 737 Max jets ordered for delivery from this year forward.
United had just 14 737 Max jets in its fleet at the time of the aircraft's March 2019 grounding following two fatal crashes that killed 346 people. United was the first airline to resume deliveries of the plane after the US Federal Aviation Administration lifted the grounding order in November of last year. Boeing has delivered at least 12 737 Max planes to United since then. It has yet to report its February deliveries.
United resumed flights aboard the 737 Max on February 11 and is currently using the plane on about 30 flights a day.
Although there have been concerns that passengers would be reluctant to fly the plane due to safety concerns, Nocella said that United is confident that passengers will be comfortable with flying on the 737 Max.
"Flights on our Max aircraft in 2018 and 2019 had the highest average customer satisfaction score of any large narrowbody aircraft," Nocella said in his memo. United is also eager to take advantage of the 15% fuel savings that the Max offers compared to older 737 jets.
But the 737 Max is not the only Boeing plane to experience recent safety problems. Some older models of the 777 widebody jet were grounded after an engine broke apart on a United soon after takeoff, forcing an emergency landing and showering debris onto a neighborhood below. Fortunately that plane was able to land safely with no injuries on the plane or on the ground.

Boeing has been scrambling to find buyers for the 737 Max after airlines canceled 655 orders for Boeing planes in 2020, most of them for the 737 Max. Those cuts were mainly due to the plunge in air travel caused by the Covid-19 pandemic and the need for airlines to conserve cash in the face of huge losses.
Boeing continued to build the planes during the grounding, but many of the 450 737 Max planes it completed during those 20 months had no buyers once the FAA gave approval for them to again be delivered.
"We are humbled by United's vote of confidence in the 737 family and the Boeing team. This order also reflects our shared view that air travel and our industry are resilient and will recover," said Ihssane Mounir, Boeing vice president of commercial plane sales and marketing.
Boeing announced an order for 75 of the 737 Max planes from Irish discount airline Ryanair (RYAAY) in December. This United order is the largest by a US airline since the grounding and is tied for the second largest with a 25-plane order from Virgin Australia in December.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#617 Post by prospector » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:35 pm

And a most unusual, probably a first, cockpit problem. A not to be rehearsed in the simulator (Thread drift sri)

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/fl ... cid=msedgd

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#618 Post by FD2 » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:05 pm

'Accidentally' ended in the stew pot afterwards?

The 737 has been an amazing success for so many years and it would be a shame if it was in its last incarnation. Airbus needs a rival to keep them both producing better and better aircraft and hopefully the software issue will have taught Boeing a lesson not to be repeated.
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#619 Post by Rwy in Sight » Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:49 am

Correct me if I am wrong but Airbus did have issues with the software of the A320 when first launched. I remember reading that back in late 80's early 90's in a French magazine but I don't recall many useful details.

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