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OFSO wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 04, 2024 10:59 am

Watching cockpit videos on the 'tube, I notice that when subsequently cleared for take-off, air crew invariably look both ways before moving onto the active.

Taught from minute one.

I always look both ways when crossing a one-way street too. Nearly got taken out by a van going the wrong way on one in Cirencester once.

llondel wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 04, 2024 4:15 pm

I always look both ways when crossing a one-way street too. Nearly got taken out by a van going the wrong way on one in Cirencester once.

Me too, llondel. People think I'm mad, but more than once, I've seen people going the wrong way down one-way streets more times than I can remember.

I agree with ex-A. Whenever I have been on a flight deck, even in a sleepy place like Gib, the crew always checked both sides before lining up. It's not just aircraft either. In some countries, it could be animals, people or vehicles.

I always look both ways when crossing a one-way street too.

Absolutely essential on any street now, regardless of direction of flow, since the invention of electric vehicles. I nearly got taken out as I turned around after depositing rubbish in our back alley bin, by an EV silently driving down the alley and passing behind me.

Thinks .... can't they put something on the wheels to make a noise, something like the bits of cardboard that we used to put on our bike wheels, as kids, to make a "clacking" sound against the spokes as we rode along !

ExSp33db1rd wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 04, 2024 10:18 pm

I always look both ways when crossing a one-way street too.

Absolutely essential on any street now, regardless of direction of flow, since the invention of electric vehicles. I nearly got taken out as I turned around after depositing rubbish in our back alley bin, by an EV silently driving down the alley and passing behind me.

Thinks .... can't they put something on the wheels to make a noise, something like the bits of cardboard that we used to put on our bike wheels, as kids, to make a "clacking" sound against the spokes as we rode along !

Don't know about NZ but it is a legal requirement in the UK for an electric vehicle to have a sound generated at low speed to make pedestrians aware of the car's presence. An extract from the notes for my Kia EV6...

The Virtual Engine Sound System (VESS) generates an engine sound for pedestrians to hear the vehicle because there is no sound while the Electric Vehicle (EV) is operating.

If the vehicle is in the ready mode and the gear is not in P (Park), the VESS will operate.

When the gear is shifted to R (Reverse), an additional warning sound will be heard.

It is not an internal combustion engine sound and quite honestly is not that loud. It commences when the driver takes the car out of P(Park) even though the car isn't moving and cuts out at about 20mph when road noise from the tyres is louder than the VESS. When I select reverse gear then the car emits a beeping sound much like any commercial vehicle does when reversing.

Re being taken out as a pedestrian - in the summer in town I was doing about 25mph and a child, about 6 years old, ran out in front of me. The car sensed the obstruction and slammed on the brakes hard a fraction before I did.

Juan has an update



Interesting NOTAM that said the stop bars on C1-14 were inoperative. I wonder if the Dash 8 captain thought that the lack of a stop warning meant he was OK to proceed, given that he thought he had take-off clearance?

Doesn't it switch to green when clear to cross it? Not just go out.

Don't know about NZ but it is a legal requirement in the UK for an electric vehicle to have a sound generated at low speed

Don't think it is, there are some pretty silent EV's around here. ( 0ff thread )

On thread ! .... The radio transcript I've heard had the Japanese ATC wallah speaking far too fast for me to easily follow, so might have some bearing on the Coastguard pilot's comprehension, and if he had only just switched from Ground to Tower he might not have heard JAL being given landing clearance, still , that doesn't excuse visually clearing to one's satisfaction before entering an active runway. No idea, wasn't there.

I once had a near miss whilst taxying for take off rom Narita, a Japanese carrier ( Not JAL ) requesting clearance to taxi off his stand was told to hold position and follow us, instead of which he pulled out directly in front of us. Fortunately we had good brakes. ( and an expletive comment was recorded on the radio frequency ! )

A Southern accented USA pilot was once heard telling New York ATC ....... Say, d'y'all hear how slow ah speak ? Well, that's how slow ah think. Sa again, slowly please.

Ex-Ascot wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 05, 2024 6:53 am

Doesn't it switch to green when clear to cross it? Not just go out.

I was thinking more that if it wasn't there at all then he could have missed it in the dark. However, he's supposed to have said he thought he had take-off clearance, which would imply he'd gone straight onto the runway. If he was there for a couple of minutes then he could have gotten out of the way if he thought he was cleared to take off, so something doesn't add up.

A possibility is that the Coastguard pilot joined the tower too late to hear the A350 Landing Clearance, and misinterpreted the "Number 1" as meaning he could enter the runway but not yet take off.
Perhaps "Taxi to Holding Point C5" got mentally shifted to "Taxi via Holding Point C5"
Whilst the Captain survived, it's not uncommon that s/he may a complete memory blank due to trauma.

I do not think the number one call by ATC was clear.
I am used to something like "After the landing Airbus you will be number 1 for departure. Clear taxi to Holding Point C5"

Personally, I don't think I've ever heard a "Hold short" call from ATC. I would not enter the active without either departure clearance, or a specific clearance to "Line Up". Line Up was usually given when one was leading a formation, to allow all the positioning to be sorted prior to a departure clearance.

Fox

Line Up was usually given when one was leading a formation, to allow all the positioning to be sorted prior to a departure clearance.

Or awaiting wake turbulence separation from departing traffic.

Good point. That was probably what the Dash 8 Captain was more used to at Haneda.

A Japanese TV station has done a reconstruction of the evac using passenger video. One guy, towards the rear left of the cabin, started videoing right at the collision and left it running. There is a timestamp added, plus commentary from former stews.

Click on the settings wheel to access Japanese captions, then again to access auto translate thereof.
Sourced via The Air Current blog.

Approx real timeline (not video time):
0:00 Collision
0:20 a/c comes to a stop
Crew assess which exits may be viable
6:00 Fire Service begins spraying foam, crew open safe doors (front left and right, rear left. All 4 around the wing plus rear right kept closed due to flames)
6:20 Crew complete assessment of safety outside the opened doors.
6:25 Evac order given
18:00 Evac complete after Captain personally checks entire aircraft.

Other notes. Cabin starts to fill with smoke once doors are opened.
Announcement system inop. Crew use megaphones.