Plane crash at Essendon Airport, Victoria, Feb.21 '17

[Karearea]

Five people are feared dead after a charter plane smashed into the DFO Shopping Centre in Essendon and burst into flames.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/light-plane-crashes-near-tullamarine-freeway-and-dfo-essendon-20170220-guhemi.html

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2017/aair/ao-2017-024/

[Cacophonix]

Sounds like the King Air lost a donkey on take off. In principle he should have been able to climb away (slowly) with one engine but given load (it is surprising how much golfers and their clubs can weigh), inability to feather a prop after catastrophic failure (for example), density altitude etc. this may not have been an option. Sad to hear and no doubt the ATSB folks will give us the full picture.

Caco

[Alisoncc]

Imagine bending a nice Kingy.

Sorry Caco, four pax and their golf gear is not excessive for a Kingair, far from it. Used to configure ours to take eight or nine burly mining types - fly in fly out ops in Southern Africa where both altitude and OAT's were in the high range. Yesterday was quite cool in Melbourne and Essenden can't be more than 30 feet AMSL.

[Cacophonix]

Alisoncc I was just making a general comment about weight and balance really . I mean pilot could think, "I only have 4 passengers, no problem" and doesn't do the calculation or something like that. If my memory, serves me correctly we never put more than 6 passengers in the aircraft although I agree with this there are 2 seats to spare in the 200 which is the only model of this venerable aircraft I have flown.

As it is I have no idea what the cause of this accident was although I suspect it will be something quite something simple (it generally is)!

By the way what do you mean by burly, are you suggesting that South Africans are fatter than the norm?

Caco

[Pinky the pilot]

One of the first things that passed through my mind upon hearing about this accident was that I wondered which of the TV News mobs would be the first to strut out a certain GT, describing him as an Aviation Expert.

To my surprise, the only TV News service I saw him on was the ABC and he was on for about 4 seconds only.
And the subtitles described him as an 'Aviation Journalist.''

Which is 'fair 'nuff' I guess.

Who knows; Maybe at last the Media is learning!!

[Cacophonix]

I noted this article doing the rounds in the Aussie press with reference to the Captain on this flight. It is probably just an unfortunate co-incidence.

The pilot of the plane that crashed at Essendon Airport killing himself and four passengers on Tuesday was the subject of an ongoing investigation by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau that had been deferred on three separate occasions.

Max Quartermain, the 63-year-old owner and pilot for charter company Corporate and Leisure Aviation faced referral to the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and possible suspension of his aviation licence over a "near collision" with another plane on Mount Hotham in September 2015...

Mr Quartermain was transporting Audi customers to an exclusive event at the alpine resort, when he came within 1.8 kilometres horizontally and 90 metres vertically to a plane from Sydney that was ferrying passengers to the same function.

In bad conditions, Mr Quartermain was forced to abandon his first landing attempt.

At one point, it was alleged that Mr Quartermain radioed to say he was 10 nautical miles (19.5 kilometres) west of Mount Hotham, before correcting himself to say he was actually 10 nautical miles east.

It is understood that some of the passengers on board the flight were left badly shaken and insisted Audi find a replacement pilot for the return to Melbourne.

Single man or small staffed operator facing the stress of having to operate in a very competitive space perhaps? I don't know and will shut up now and let the investigation take its course. By all accounts he knew what he was about and had been in the business for 38 years.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/essen ... ui1ki.html

Caco

[Cacophonix]

The following dash cam footage shows the aircraft just before impact. It doesn't seem to show any evidence of loss of control ( i.e. severe bank angle, incipient spin attitude!)

[bbvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UddXCRnB_E[/bbvideo]

Caco

[Boac]

1.8 kilometres horizontally and 90 metres

- presumably VFR - what's the issue?

If that was genuine footage of the accident (and not just someone on approach) it does look like 'double trouble'. Another (earlier, BBC) report had said the a/c had 'turned back towards the airport'.

[Cacophonix]

Ok VFR.

Maybe he had filed IFR and made a duff call on his position, this and the complaints of a competitor (who decided to put the knife in) aided by the shrieks of corporate passengers who were late (due to weather delays possibly) added fuel to the fire. Small time commercial aviation is as political and as cut throat as the bordello business (as I am sure you know)!

All supposition on my part. Don't sue me as I am only the organ grinder's monkey.;

UK definition VFR

http://www.airproxboard.org.uk/File-an- ... n-Airprox/

Airprox definition
An Airprox is a situation in which, in the opinion of a pilot or air traffic services personnel, the distance between aircraft as well as their relative positions and speed have been such that the safety of the aircraft involved may have been compromised.

Don't look at me Boac lest I file an airprox!

Caco

[Boac]

Small time commercial aviation is as political and as cut throat as the bordello business

- not sure which end of my many experiences you are alluding to there................

[Cacophonix]

Small time commercial aviation is as political and as cut throat as the bordello business

- not sure which end of my many experiences you are alluding to there................

We leave that one up in the air!

If that was genuine footage of the accident (and not just someone on approach) it does look like 'double trouble')

My thoughts exactly (fuel management, contamination????)....

Caco

[Cacophonix]

Small time commercial aviation is as political and as cut throat as the bordello business

- not sure which end of my many experiences you are alluding to there................

We leave that one up in the air!

If that was genuine footage of the accident (and not just someone on approach) it does look like 'double trouble')

My thoughts exactly (fuel management, contamination????)....

Caco

Or he manually feathered the wrong prop and the auto-feather did for the prop on the offending engine?

I was looking at Google satellite view of the airfield and he didn't have much choice for an off field dead stick landing if that was the scenario!

Caco

[Boac]

What an awful place for an airport! Only on the northern is there anywhere to put down after take-off. I bet property there is cheap.............

Caco - I'm pretty sure your video is not pertinent - looking at the crash site there had to have been a left turn involved to arrive there - assuming he was off the southerly.

[Cacophonix]

What an awful place for an airport! Only on the northern is there anywhere to put down after take-off. I bet property there is cheap.............

Caco - I'm pretty sure your video is not pertinent - looking at the crash site there had to have been a left turn involved to arrive there - assuming he was off the southerly.

Agree entirely with your first point and am trying to orientate myself with respect to Google and the video and failing so you are probably right there too.

Caco

[Boac]

I wouldn't waste too much time on the video - some hapless Bruce or Sheila found a clip on his/her dashcam and has made a bit of money from it. It looks to me as if it was shot from the east of the DFC centre on the M2 for an a/c on approach to ?35? I don't think the crash a/c ever got that high.

[Alisoncc]

What an awful place for an airport! Only on the northern is there anywhere to put down after take-off. I bet property there is cheap...

Essenden was the main airport for Melbourne way way back, before they built Tullamarine in the late sixties. It goes back to the 1920's, and Melbourne just grew around it.. For a long time it was up for de-commissioning, as Moorabbin is the main GA strip. But like a lot of these things it just seems to hang around.

Alison

[Cacophonix]

What an awful place for an airport! Only on the northern is there anywhere to put down after take-off. I bet property there is cheap...

Essenden was the main airport for Melbourne way way back, before they built Tullamarine in the late sixties. It goes back to the 1920's, and Melbourne just grew around it.. For a long time it was up for de-commissioning, as Moorabbin is the main GA strip. But like a lot of these things it just seems to hang around.

Alison

Seems AOPA are blaming the politicians and are all over the location of the DFO building like a rash...

An aviation leader has called for the Federal Government to be held to account for the five deaths in the Essendon DFO plane crash as he aims to prove the plane could have been landed safely.

Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association of Australia executive director Benjamin Morgan said he was in the process of organising a simulation to determine whether or not the plane could have been landed if the DFO building was not there.

“It is our view that the airplane could have landed safely in the airport perimeter which really justifies our view that these kind of developments are incompatible with aviation safety,” Mr Morgan said.

“There is a serious issue of culpability for these buildings being approved in the first place.”

He said the government that approved the DFO development should be held accountable.

The DFO at Essendon opened in 2005 after being approved by the Liberal Government in December 2004.

A former government minister said it was an important decision that was taken seriously.

“The decision would have been taken on advice given to the minister of the time and there was a whole range of experts that would have provided information,” the former minister said.

Mr Morgan said there were many airports where structures needed to now be removed to return safety to the aviation industry.

“We are utterly disgusted it has taken the death of five people to bring this issue to the fore,” Mr Morgan said.

“There are five people as of today that have lost their lives as a result of the placement of that building.”

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/nort ... f7f3fbfb56

I wonder if this line of reasoning will fly. I am not convinced. The location of the airfield itself seems to be the question they should be asking about, that and of course, what caused the accident in the first place.

Caco

[Boac]

Absolutely. Stupid people. The field should be closed. Have these lu-lus looked at all the other buildings 30 degrees off the other runways inside the 'perimeter'?

[Cacophonix]

One still wonders about the auto feather and whether it not it failed or the engine out checklist/procedure was botched with tragic consequences?

Previous accident with the King Air C90. Critical engine failed also veered left immediately after takeoff and crashed etc. (Auto feather and rudder boost questions?)

https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/24353/aai ... 18_001.pdf

Idle speculation by me of course.

Caco

[Cacophonix]

Had a drink with one of the best and craziest of my Beech pilot friends tonight. He babbled about throttle slide back and then he blathered about trim...

?

Caco