Lion Air 737 Missing

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llondel
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Lion Air 737 Missing

#1 Post by llondel » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:07 am

Reports of a Lion Air 737 missing.
An Indonesian Lion Air Boeing 737 carrying 188 passengers and crew was reported missing shortly after takeoff Monday morning, authorities said.

Reuters quoted a spokesman for Indonesia's search and rescue agency as saying the plane had crashed into the sea. NBC News has not independently confirmed the report.

The national news agency, Antara, would confirm only that Flight JT610, a Boeing 737 MAX 8, was reported missing 13 minutes after it took off at 6:20 a.m. (7:20 p.m. ET Sunday) for Pangkal Pinang, the capital of the Sumatran island Bangka-Belitung in the Java Sea. It was carrying 178 adult passengers, three infants and seven crew members, including two pilots, Antara said.

Before authorities lost contact with the plane, it requested permission to return to the airport, the news agency said.

Slasher

Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#2 Post by Slasher » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:32 am

I believe that's now the second 737 Lion Scare have lost. The first was when the crew missfiddled the IRSs while in IMC and bunged 'em in Attitude mode they wrong way.

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Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#3 Post by admin » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:35 am

Gonna be expensive for someone. I believe aircraft only delivered new in August, certified airworthy 15th August 2018.

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Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#4 Post by Capetonian » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:42 am

Another terrible Indonesian air tragedy. A 737 Max 8 apparently. One of the reports I saw early this morning indicated that there had been problems with the aircraft type 'maintaining level flight' whatever that is supposed to mean. I thought I read that on the BBC. can't find it now.

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Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#5 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:55 am

Slasher wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:32 am
I believe that's now the second 737 Lion Scare have lost. The first was when the crew missfiddled the IRSs while in IMC and bunged 'em in Attitude mode they wrong way.
Let us little tin can pilots try and deconstruct that gnomic acronym soup! :p ;)))

I assume that Slasher is alluding to the Inertial Reference System and the selection of attitude mode on that system in flight, perhaps due to an Inertial Reference Unit failure, which would have given a 'rough' attitude and heading for the aircraft in flight but whose setting would not have been given any navigation information.



I do love these posts. Gives me chance to pull Slash's leg and maybe even learn something when he returns to set me straight! =)) ;)))


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Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#6 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:21 am

Returning to the serious subject of this crash I have just heard on Radio 4 that it is reported that Lion's Director of Operations has told the press that the aircraft had "some technical issues whose rectification had been legally deferred"!

Caco

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Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#7 Post by Slasher » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:39 am

Cacophonix wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:55 am
Gives me chance to pull Slash's leg and maybe even learn something when he returns to set me straight! =)) ;)))

Your leg pull was successful Caco but remember me 'ed is full of Scarebus but I'll try to recall the 737-400...

Switching to attitude mode allows the IRS(s) to provide to relative systems the following:

Attitude info to the A/H (HSI in Boeingspeak) and other platforms such as wx radar.
Heading info (after manually entering same) to Nav display. Note that heading must be updated manually every 15 mins due to IRS drift.

What must be done is MAINTAIN LEVEL UNACCELLERATED FLIGHT FOR 30 SECONDS while this is going on. This is what that crew didn't do and screwed it up. Consequently the IRSs just spat out garbage.

Ahem...since I derive my income as a full time destructor now that'll be 5 quid for this ground tutorlege mate! :p

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Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#8 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:44 am

Slasher wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:39 am
Your leg pull was successful Caco but remember me 'ed is full of Scarebus but I'll try to recall the 737-400...

Switching to attitude mode allows the IRS(s) to provide to relative systems the following:

Attitude info to the A/H (HSI in Boeingspeak) and other platforms such as wx radar.
Heading info (after manually entering same) to Nav display. Note that heading must be updated manually every 15 mins due to IRS drift.

What must be done is MAINTAIN LEVEL UNACCELLERATED FLIGHT FOR 30 SECONDS while this is going on. This is what that crew didn't do and screwed it up. Consequently the IRSs just spat out garbage.

Ahem...since I derive my income as a full time destructor now that'll be 5 quid for this ground tutorlege mate! :p
Thanks for that Slash. As for payment I'll credit your side of the Pilatus joint hire fund account shall I? ;)))


Caco

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Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#9 Post by Slasher » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:50 am

Yep that's ok mate as long as we take Henshaw's route to CPT. I wanna land at Oran and Naomey and smell the rotting stink he experienced at Libreville. :)

Getting back on topic it therefore seems another MEL problem again for which the crew couldn't cope.

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Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#10 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:53 am

AFFIRM Captain. :-bd


To both non-serious and serious statements.

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Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#11 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:20 am

Slasher wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:39 am
Cacophonix wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:55 am
Gives me chance to pull Slash's leg and maybe even learn something when he returns to set me straight! =)) ;)))

Your leg pull was successful Caco but remember me 'ed is full of Scarebus but I'll try to recall the 737-400...

Switching to attitude mode allows the IRS(s) to provide to relative systems the following:

Attitude info to the A/H (HSI in Boeingspeak) and other platforms such as wx radar.
Heading info (after manually entering same) to Nav display. Note that heading must be updated manually every 15 mins due to IRS drift.

What must be done is MAINTAIN LEVEL UNACCELLERATED FLIGHT FOR 30 SECONDS while this is going on. This is what that crew didn't do and screwed it up. Consequently the IRSs just spat out garbage.
Twas an Adam Air crash Slash...

http://flightsafety.org/asw/jun08/asw_j ... 0.pdf?dl=1

Caco

Slasher

Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#12 Post by Slasher » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:22 am

Got it. I stand corrected my friend.

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Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#13 Post by Boac » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:27 am

Somewhat of a chequered history? From Wiki:

On 14 January 2002, Lion Air Flight 386, a Boeing 737-200 crashed on take-off and was written off at Sultan Syarif Kasim II International Airport. Everyone on board survived.
On 30 November 2004, Lion Air Flight 538, a McDonnell Douglas MD-82, crashed in Surakarta with registration PK-LMN (c/n 49189); 25 people died.[26]
On 4 March 2006, Lion Air Flight 8987, a McDonnell Douglas MD-82, crashed after landing at Juanda International Airport.[27] Reverse thrust was used during landing, although the left thrust reverser was stated to be out of service.[27] This caused the aircraft to veer to the right and skid off the runway, coming to rest about 7,000 feet (2,100 m) from the approach end of the runway.[27] There were no fatalities, but the aircraft was badly damaged.[27]
On 24 December 2006, Lion Air Flight 792, a Boeing 737-400, landed with an incorrect flap configuration and was not aligned with the runway.[28] The plane landed hard and skidded along the runway causing the right main landing gear to detach, the left gear to protrude through the wing and some of the aircraft fuselage to be wrinkled.[28] There were no fatalities, but the aircraft was written off.[28]
On 23 February 2009, Lion Air Flight 972, a McDonnell Douglas MD-82 landed without the nose gear at Hang Nadim International Airport, Batam.
On 9 March 2009, Lion Air Flight 793, a McDonnell Douglas MD-90-30 (registration PK-LIL) ran off the runway at Soekarno–Hatta International Airport. No-one was injured.[29]
On 2 November 2010, Lion Air Flight 712, a Boeing 737-400 (registration PK-LIQ) overran the runway on landing at Supadio Airport, Pontianak, coming to rest on its belly and sustaining damage to its nose gear. All 174 passengers and crew evacuated by the emergency slides, with few injuries.[30]
On 13 April 2013, Lion Air Flight 904, a Boeing 737-800 (registration PK-LKS; c/n 38728) from Bandung to Denpasar with 108 people on board, crashed into the water near Denpasar/Bali while attempting to land. The aircraft’s fuselage broke into two parts.[31] While Indonesian officials reported the aircraft crashed short of the runway,[31] reporters and photographers from Reuters and the Associated Press indicated that the plane overshot the runway.[32][33] All passengers and crew were evacuated from the aircraft and there were no fatalities.[31]
On 6 August 2013, Lion Air Flight 892, a Boeing 737-800 (registration PK-LKH; c/n 37297) from Makassar to Gorontalo with 117 passengers and crew on board, hit a cow while landing at Jalaluddin Airport and veered off the runway. There were no injuries.[34]
On 1 February 2014, Lion Air Flight 361, a Boeing 737-900ER (registration PK-LFH; c/n 35710), from Balikpapan Sultan Aji Muhammad Sulaiman Airport to Ngurah Rai International Airport in Denpasar/Bali via Juanda International Airport in Surabaya, with 222 passengers and crew on board, landed hard and bounced four times on the runway, causing a tail strike and substantial damage to the plane. There were no fatalities, but two passengers were seriously injured and three others had minor injuries.[35]
On 20 February 2016, Lion Air Flight 263 from Balikpapan Sultan Aji Muhammad Sulaiman Airport to Juanda International Airport in Surabaya overran the runway on landing, with no injuries.[36] The National Transportation Safety Committee investigation into the incident found that failures in crew resource management led to improper landing procedures, and recommended that Indonesian airlines improve pilot training.[37]
On 2 April 2017, about 300 litres [38] of fuel spilled on the tarmac at Juanda International Airport in Surabaya. Pictures taken by passengers on board showed fuel pouring out of one of the aircraft's wings.[39] Shortly after, all passengers were evacuated and the plane was grounded for further investigation. No casualties were reported. That same day a representative from Lion Air was summoned by the Indonesian Transport Ministry to clarify the incident. An early statement by a Lion Air representative said that the leak was caused by a non-functioning safety valve and overflow detector.[40]
On 29 April 2018, Lion Air Flight 892, a 737-800 (registration PK-LOO), made a runway excursion at Jalaluddin Airport after landing under heavy rain conditions, resulting in the main nose gear to collapse. There were no fatalities.
On 29 October 2018, Lion Air Flight 610, a 737 MAX 8, crashed in the Java Sea 13 minutes after takeoff from Jakarta, with all 189 passengers and crew onboard missing, presumed dead

Sisemen

Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#14 Post by Sisemen » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:27 am

Yep that's ok mate as long as we take Henshaw's route to CPT

Que?

Sisemen aka Al Henshaw

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Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#15 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:06 am

Sisemen wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:27 am
Yep that's ok mate as long as we take Henshaw's route to CPT

Que?

Sisemen aka Al Henshaw

A noble name SIr!

We were referring to this A Henshaw...

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2007/m ... s.military

Caco

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Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#16 Post by Sisemen » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:54 am

I KNOW that Caco :))

It’s something that followed me right throughout my RAF service from the day I first enquired, and right through my subsequent aviation exploits. And no, we weren’t related - as far as I know :D

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Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#17 Post by Undried Plum » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:34 pm

The GPS/ADS-B data tells an interesting story:
Image

Given that the previous flight had snagged an erroneous speed indication and altimeter mismatch, the crew's hunting for a sensible speed and climb rate looks understandable.

Attitude + Power = Performance.

Set the pitch angle to three or four degrees above the horizon; set a sensible power setting; trim; sorted.

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Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#18 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:56 pm

Sisemen wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:54 am
I KNOW that Caco :))

It’s something that followed me right throughout my RAF service from the day I first enquired, and right through my subsequent aviation exploits. And no, we weren’t related - as far as I know :D
;)))

Caco

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Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#19 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:54 pm

Set the pitch angle to three or four degrees above the horizon; set a sensible power setting; trim; sorted.
But that requires " flying the aeroplane" ( maybe even looking out of the window ? ) and not playing with some glorified digital game controller.

Slasher

Re: Lion Air 737 Missing

#20 Post by Slasher » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:48 am

Undried Plum wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:34 pm
Attitude + Power = Performance.

Set the pitch angle to three or four degrees above the horizon; set a sensible power setting; trim; sorted.
Good synopsis Mr Plum. Actually 737s and Scarebi have detailed tables in their QRH in the event of loss of all ASIs. It's entered with phase of flight and GW. From it you extract a power setting and body angle.

Airbi nowadays have a thing called "fly the green" - utilising AoA info and presenting it on the side of the AH where the ASI would be, in the form of a green band.

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