Ops-Normal.org

Flintstone wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:57 pm

Cacophonix wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:18 pm

De minimus this guy should have been flying on an EIR, US/IR or a full EASA IR and even then he shouldn't have flown the Malibu into known icing conditions.

It was a night for a beer and bed.

Caco

As my old (ex-RAAF) CFI once said to me "When lost in IMC the amateur descends, the professional climbs and one of them lives to tell the tale".

As borne out by this CAA case study in South Africa.

viewtopic.php?p=161355#p161355

Caco

That Saff Affrikan video is chilling.

Flintstone wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:52 pm

That Saff Affrikan video is chilling.

Chilling! You sum it up perfectly Flintstone.


Caco

I know it's the Daily Wail, but here is the latest news regarding the initial AAIB report; https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rrors.html

Here’s the BBC version.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-47358572

So basically all that remains is the lawsuits.


.

Willie McKay did not own aircraft.

Pilot 'dropped out of commercial training'

Agent Willie McKay, who commissioned the flight for Sala, said the flight from Nantes to Cardiff was not a cost-sharing arrangement.
Payment would usually be made after a flight due to the varying amounts paid for landing fees at different airports.
"He said he couldn't do it himself but he was going to get someone. I trusted David, I had no reason not to," said Mr McKay.
"When you phone for a taxi you don't ask him if he has a driving licence. I was just thinking about getting the boy home which he wanted and we were happy with what we did.
"I've been told on good authority he was a very good pilot so for people to vilify the pilot after a man's death is a disgrace. I don't hold anyone responsible because it's just a tragic accident."

G-CPTN wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:17 am

Pilot 'dropped out of commercial training'

Agent Willie McKay, who commissioned the flight for Sala, said the flight from Nantes to Cardiff was not a cost-sharing arrangement.
Payment would usually be made after a flight due to the varying amounts paid for landing fees at different airports.
"He said he couldn't do it himself but he was going to get someone. I trusted David, I had no reason not to," said Mr McKay.
"When you phone for a taxi you don't ask him if he has a driving licence. I was just thinking about getting the boy home which he wanted and we were happy with what we did.
"I've been told on good authority he was a very good pilot so for people to vilify the pilot after a man's death is a disgrace. I don't hold anyone responsible because it's just a tragic accident."

I assume McKay is talking about Dave Henderson and not Dave Ibbotson

If true then Dave Henderson may be about to enter a world of legal pain, although he may not have known, or may claim that he did not know, that Ibbotson was not qualified to make this flight!

Caco

When you phone for a taxi you don't ask him if he has a driving licence.

I said something along these lines way back in this thread. What about a few commercial pilots who have been flying passenger jets for years and were found to be un-qualified? Four gold bars on your shoulder/sleeve, photo security tag clipped to your lapel bought on line, a nav bag and off you go.

I have been asked for my driving licence here more times in a month than I have ever been asked for my ATPL.

Ex-Ascot wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:50 am

When you phone for a taxi you don't ask him if he has a driving licence.

I said something along these lines way back in this thread. What about a few commercial pilots who have been flying passenger jets for years and were found to be un-qualified? Four gold bars on your shoulder/sleeve, photo security tag clipped to your lapel bought on line, a nav bag and off you go.

I have been asked for my driving licence here more times in a month than I have ever been asked for my ATPL.

An SAA 1st officer of 20 years has just been rumbled.

He declined the offer of Captains job as he knew that he would have to produce documents he didn't have.

An SAA 1st officer of 20 years has just been rumbled.

He declined the offer of Captains job as he knew that he would have to produce documents he didn't have.

Here’s a link to the story

https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News ... t-20190301

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sout ... -hplc3p00v

A pilot with fraudulent paperwork flew for South Africa’s national airline over a period of more than 20 years.

William Chandler told South African Airways (SAA) that he had passed the requisite annual checks and simulator tests and the airline took him at his word.

In fact, he had taken tests for a much less rigorous pilot’s licence that did not qualify the holder to fly for airlines. Suspicions were aroused when he executed some “strange turns” while at the controls on a flight over the Swiss Alps.

SAA has reported him to the police for fraud. Described by cockpit colleagues as “charming and ultra-confident” at the controls, Mr Chandler was finally exposed in November when he took over from the captain in Swiss air…

This is a completely different matter. He had a CPL. It was company policy that a F/O after five years should achieve an ATPL. He was legal to fly but had a forged ATPL to maintain his post in the company. Company matter not legal apart from forging.

Ibbotson was operating illegally.

After looking at the pics of the airplane on the bottom, I found myself thinking 'flat spin' for some reason.

I have been asked for my driving licence here more times in a month than I have ever been asked for my ATPL.

I had a good friend who flew Grumman Mallard for years without a seaplane rating. He probably had a few thousand hours on it before one day an inspector - who just happened to be a Mallard fan - wandered over to look at the airplane on the ramp. Ken showed him around, and as he was leaving he asked "Oh by the way, can I see your license?" Ken's excuse was that they never operated the airplane off the water, which was a big, fat porky. The inspector was nice about it, gave him a week to get a float endorsement, and everything went under the rug.

The standard SAFA ramp check is primarily a check/inspection of the aircraft, however there are a couple of items on the checklist regarding crews, one point is check the operating crew licences, also that operating crews are carrying a spare pair of spectacles if worn. The SAFA check is more usually aimed at commercially operated aircraft rather than private flights, in this case providing the pilot had a PPL they probably would not have looked further, the unhappy footballer could just have been a friend enjoying a jolly.

The "grey" area of illegal chartering isn't really grey at all, it is clearly illegal, for some reason the authorities don't seem to be on the case, many of the business jets on off shore registers are operated with questionable economics, possible the law is so complex that it is hard to prove wrong doing at prosecution level.

Shoreham, Barton, this case, does seem to indicate a lack of effective oversight of operations in general.

om15 wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:00 pm

The "grey" area of illegal chartering isn't really grey at all, it is clearly illegal...

Indeed, and as you say very little seems to be done about it. I see 'crew' at certain airports who are clearly at it but trying to have someone take an interest is a waste of time.

There's also an element of who revel in (in their eyes) sticking it to commercial pilots by being paid on a PPL. One even said to me "See? We can do it just as well as you, even without the training". Well as Mr Ibbotson has proven, no you can't.

I get asked to show my licence every line check and sim check. Taxi drivers permits/licences are on display when you get in.

The SACAA video is chilling. An acquaintance described a flight he did before he had an instrument rating. To say he was lucky is an understatement. He reckons he did at least 3 loops before he managed to pop clear of the clouds and just enough altitude to get out of the steep dive.

Regarding more to be done about these grey charters? Well, often they're on foreign (eg USA) reg aircraft. How much can the CAA do there and of course, there's just not enough inspectors going around. Apps like Wingly really don't help the situation either. My attitude to those idiots conning people. It's their funeral...

My attitude to those idiots conning people. It's their funeral...

Very well put. In this case, it boggles the mind that someone who just signed a multi-million deal is doing on a buckshee* charter.


*Canadian expression meaning illegal.

AOC operators go to a lot of trouble, and spend a lot of money, to obtain and maintain that AOC.

The CAA really ought to be both morally and legally obliged to pro-actively seek out the illegal/grey charter operators and subject them to the full force of Law.

From what has come into the wider public domain as result of the massive publicity of this accident it would be a good starting point for the CAA to very closely examine the credentials of aircraft operators/pilots involved in ad hoc work carrying jockeys and other high profile sportsmen around the country and continent.

It is not reasonable to expect non-aviation members of the public to positively vet their hired pilots and operators. To most passengers the bloke sitting in Seat Row 0, the one with four gold bars on epaulettes on a white shirt or NATO woolypulley is "the pilot". Very very few people have ever heard of an AOC and fewer would have a clue how to check out an AOC holder on the CAA website. That's for the CAA to proactively police.

I also think it's now time to eliminate the very concept of "grey charters". There are legitimate PPL operations and there are legitimate Commercial ops. Black and white, not with grey in between.

As for the Wingly thing, I'm exasperated. I saw a PPL(H) with 70hrs TT hawking himself on their website to fly a 20 minute flight to some country hotel in a Robbie for a coupla hundred Quid. If that is legal then there's something wrong with the Law.