Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

[Undried Plum]

Even with fuel only to the tabs, would any Cap'n Falstaff carry these three reprobates in a Warrior?


Not even for a Krugerrand, methinks.

[Cacophonix]

Even with fuel only to the tabs, would any Cap'n Falstaff carry these three reprobates in a Warrior?

Not even for a Krugerrand, methinks.

Maybe with 10 lires of fuel on board in our underpants!

Caco

[Flintstone]

Where did you get that from FS?

Ooops, sorry. Forgot the link.


https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... t-15838689

[Ibbie]

GUILTY!
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... h-15860828

[Cacophonix]

GUILTY!
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... h-15860828

Not much he can say really save "It was a fair cop guv!"...

I bet he gets about 4 years.

The man is clearly a fool given that any competent pilot (no matter how greedy) would have been aware that the aircraft was critically overloaded and out of balance.

Caco

[Ex-Ascot]

Oh dear, never mind.

Caco, I would go for more like 10. Place your bets folks.

[Cacophonix]

We shall see Ex-Ascot.

This bloke has left a snail trail of aviation related trouble behind him it seems.

An airline boss from Preston has been disqualified from being a director after his aviation business crashed owing £1m. Robert Gregor Murgatroyd, of Ash Close, Elswick, near Preston, was the director of the scheduled airline and flight training company Comed Aviation Ltd. The 36-year-old agreed to a six-year disqualification in respect of his conduct as a director of the Lancashire-based flying firm, which failed with debts of more than 1,115,000. Comed Aviation, whose Irish Sea routes were grounded in February 2001 after Blackpool Airport impounded its aircraft, eventually collapsed owing to its financial problems. The airline, which ran its business from premises at Building 28 at Blackpool Airport, began operating at the Squires Gate Lane airport in 1992.Flights to the Isle of Man were introduced in 1993, with larger aircraft joining the fleet in 1998.

Until the day it collapsed, Comed flew 10 flights a day between the Fylde coast and Belfast, Dublin and the Isle of ManThe company employed around 70 staff, including pilots, air hostesses, ticket sales and reservation clerks. At the time Comed folded Robert Murgatroyd blamed the high cost of maintenance and hiring replacement aircraft on his company's problems.Speaking at the time he said: "We do owe a considerable amount to the airport in unpaid landing fees and passenger tax."But the main reason for our downfall has been the cost of maintenance carried out by a private contractor in Yorkshire."The other problem was that we had to charter in while our own aircraft were in for maintenance." By accepting the undertaking, Mr Murgatroyd is prevented from being a director of a company.

Read more at: https://www.lep.co.uk/news/air-boss-dis ... h-1-128488


He was associated, as owner, with these two aircraft...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _12-07.pdf

https://www.sust.admin.ch/inhalte/AV-be ... 2175_e.pdf

Caco

[Cacophonix]

In the first few interviews, Murgatroyd portrayed himself as the 'hero of the moment', claiming that he should be receiving an award, rather than being arrested, and that he had saved the lives of him and the three passengers.

He joked that Warner Brothers had been in touch to make a film on him, named 'Miracle on the Ship Canal', a play on 'Miracle on the Hudson'.

The film starred Tom Hanks as Captain 'Sully' Sullenberger, a pilot who landed a US Airways flight in the Hudson River off Manhattan, after both the plane's engines were disabled by a bird strike. All 155 people aboard survived.

Later, Murgatroyd was told that the CAA were listening to what he was telling officers from another room in the police station.

Prosecutors said his answers to questions soon changed.

Caco

[Pontius Navigator]

Murgatroyd, an experienced pilot from Blackpool, had taken off from Barton Aerodrome in Salford on Saturday, September 9, 2017, with three bird watchers as his passengers.

Old pilots and bold pilots springs to mind

[unifoxos]

Caco, I don't think that enough is covered on aircraft performance for a PPL. OK mine was circa 1977


Sorry to disagree, Ex-A but I trained PPL at Barton around that time, and I definitely remember doing practice weight and balance calcs in ground school. IIRC we used pretty realistic figures, and one lesson was introduced by the instructor asking us to imagine two of us off to play golf and chucking two bags of clubs in the back seat. It was, needless to say, outside limits when we worked it out.

[Ex-Ascot]

Caco, I don't think that enough is covered on aircraft performance for a PPL. OK mine was circa 1977


Sorry to disagree, Ex-A but I trained PPL at Barton around that time, and I definitely remember doing practice weight and balance calcs in ground school. IIRC we used pretty realistic figures, and one lesson was introduced by the instructor asking us to imagine two of us off to play golf and chucking two bags of clubs in the back seat. It was, needless to say, outside limits when we worked it out.

I am sure you are correct it is just that I do not remember it. My PPL was with Marshall's of Cambridge sponsored by the Royal Air Force so I am sure that it was a good course. Never had a prang there. It was only when I joined the Royal Air Force that I had prangs.

[Cacophonix]

Caco, I don't think that enough is covered on aircraft performance for a PPL. OK mine was circa 1977


Sorry to disagree, Ex-A but I trained PPL at Barton around that time, and I definitely remember doing practice weight and balance calcs in ground school. IIRC we used pretty realistic figures, and one lesson was introduced by the instructor asking us to imagine two of us off to play golf and chucking two bags of clubs in the back seat. It was, needless to say, outside limits when we worked it out.

I am sure you are correct it is just that I do not remember it. My PPL was with Marshall's of Cambridge sponsored by the Royal Air Force so I am sure that it was a good course. Never had a prang there. It was only when I joined the Royal Air Force that I had prangs.

Prangs! In a VC10? Tell us more Ex-A.

Caco

[Ex-Ascot]

Not the 10 Caco the Andover. Never bent a 10.

[Slasher]

What were these 748/Andover prangs you spuck of Sah?

This may have a direct bearing on your future under-the-table Super Cub training and checkout unless you were able to blame the copilot. If so then all will be ok!

[Cacophonix]

What were these 748/Andover prangs you spuck of Sah?

This may have a direct bearing on your future under-the-table Super Cub training and checkout unless you were able to blame the copilot. If so then all will be ok!

Probably tried to do the Bob Hoover 1G rolll trick in the Andover, but instead of using a jug of water, he used a glass of gin and tonic. Tonic was spilled over his uniform which was the accident and he still laments the damnable waste of Gordon's dry.

Ex-Ascot not so dry but mildly shaken

I am sure that you can try the same thing in the Cub with Shine Slasher!

Caco

[Ex-Ascot]

What were these 748/Andover prangs you spuck of Sah?

This may have a direct bearing on your future under-the-table Super Cub training and checkout unless you were able to blame the copilot. If so then all will be ok!

Capt, I WAS the F/O. Nose wheel collapse. You haven't got one. The locking pin wouldn't go in. We had just picked it up from a re-spray and they had sprayed in the nose wheel bay. We did a few approaches tapping it on the ground to try to get it to lock. We had a rescue helicopter following along side us filming the incident, years before digital cameras. You can hear me on the sound track, from the radio, saying we are going to land off this one regardless and then the film ran out. The nose wheel retracts forwards on the 748 so as long as we were moving it wouldn't collapse. The engineers put a line of chocks across the end of the runway and we taxied onto them keeping power on pushing against them Then a very brave engineer went under the aircraft with a track jack. Whilst this was going on the Nav opened the front door and for some reason the Capt told him to throw out the tech log (F700). Can't remember the name of type of binder but it had clips to hold in the removable pages. The helicopter was hovering beside us. When the log hit the ground the clips came undone and with the down wash of the chopper about 100 pages went all over the airfield. We chopped the power and the aircraft collapsed onto the jack. A few commendations were dished out that day. So a prang averted really.

I will e-mail you with the second one where the aircraft was damaged but again I was the F/O and it wasn't my fault.

[Slasher]

I am sure that you can try the same thing in the Cub with Shine Slasher!

Already been done mate!

BTW you're in the clear re your future unofficial PA18 training and check. I ran a search through the CAA site Kingsway.

NAME: Caco Phonix
Age: 54
Sex: Anytime
Licenses: PPL CPL
Endorsements: PA28-140/151/161 Robinson Eggbeater Trump Blimp
INCIDENTS/ACCIDENTS: Nil
MINOR CAA INFRINGEMENTS:
- Flying a Trump blimp over a built-up area without a lighter-than-air ticket
- Illegally hovering over a nude beach in a Headcorn heli without a clearance
- Attempting a CAT IIIa at EGSS in PA28 type aircraft without the proper training, based on poor advice from some Aussie yahoo.
SUMMARY: Infringements dismissed due to airman being a South African. Totally understandable.Tisk tisk warning issued.

[Slasher]

Even with fuel only to the tabs, would any Cap'n Falstaff carry these three reprobates in a Warrior?

Sure would!

Woody appears to be the kind that would secretly stow a slab in the back for enroute consumption during the dirty joke sharing component of the flight.

The middle gentlemen looks too much like George Carlin (see Sick Joke thread) so he's gotta be good company when there's seriously humourous bitching and WTF! commenting of the PIC to be done.

Caco. Dunno. He's mad as a cut snake. Plus being a Seth Effrikan he'd hog my bloody share of Woody's beer!

[Slasher]

I will e-mail you with the second one where the aircraft was damaged but again I was the F/O and it wasn't my fault.

Excellent sah. As an obviously smart F/O you managed to dodge any finger-pointing by the captain that was so prevalent in those days. Your Cub slot is in the bag!

[Ex-Ascot]

I thought that the trial was supposed to end this week.