Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#21 Post by ian16th » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:02 pm

Once flew as SLF with BCal, Birmingham to Gatwick. The a/c was a Piper Chieftain.
All (3) pax were weighed before seat allocation and boarding pass given out!
Cynicism improves with age

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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#22 Post by Pontius Navigator » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:53 pm

What is the actual charge?

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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#23 Post by Ex-Ascot » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:58 pm

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:53 pm
What is the actual charge?
Not much really:
Endangering the safety of an aircraft, endangering the safety of a person, flying without an air operator certificate, acting as pilot without holding an appropriate licence, flying an aircraft otherwise than in accordance with the limitations in the flight manual, operating an aircraft without insurance and flying without the aircraft flight manual.
That's all.
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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#24 Post by izod tester » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:01 pm

Check in at Croydon in 1934:
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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#25 Post by Boac » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:13 pm

Ex-A wrote:That's all.
- not quite, although sadly not a breach of the law:

Being Stupid

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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#26 Post by Ex-Ascot » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:17 pm

All the air charter companies here have scales. When you book a flight you have to declare your weight. If when you pitch up to their office to pick up your ticket and they are in doubt you are chucked onto the scales. Never seen it but I bet there is a huge fuss with all the big fat rich tourist Yanks here. And, their luggage. No problem, you just have to pay for an extra seat. No argument or you do not go.
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#27 Post by Sisemen » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:59 pm

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:53 pm
What is the actual charge?

500 quid a person was mentioned I think :D

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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#28 Post by Pontius Navigator » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:11 pm

I was once weighed in nav bag and all to ensure we were within max TOW and max on fuel. TOW around 715k 😀

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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#29 Post by Slasher » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:16 pm

This stooped retard didn't demonstrate the basic knowledge nor procedures required for flying even as a PPL. For that he's not a responsible pilot. He'll he's not even a pilot's arsehole for that matter.

They'll get him on not having an AOC for sure and on charging rates for hire and reward. Deserves the lockup for a few years.

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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#30 Post by Ex-Ascot » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:36 pm

Well seeng the photos of the amateur pilot he may be over average pax weight. Perhaps prison food will slim him down a bit and he can try again.
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#31 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:47 pm

I was once weighed in nav bag and all to ensure we were within max TOW and max on fuel.
Unexpectedly sent home from New York as pax. Flt/Eng. was told that his suitcase weighed more than the allowance, and he would have to pay for excess baggage. He promptly opened it and placed his uniform hat, jacket and trousers, recently worn dirty uniform shirts, flt. manual, heavy torch, and small tool kit on the counter, re-weighed his suitcase which was then below limits, and said ... " That's all company stuff, I'll draw it again when I get back to base, it's all yours " ! Collapse of stout party and he was told to re-pack his bag.

Never mess with a Flt. Eng.

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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#32 Post by Ex-Ascot » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:21 am

Heard a story of an unpopular C130 load master (LM) who had a tie down chain planted at the bottom of his massive service issue holdall. He lugged it all around the route.

Completely off thread but I had a cabin supervisor (LM) who stashed aboard a case of scotch to sell in the ME. I made him keep it on board and pay duty on it back at LHR.
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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#33 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:24 pm

......who stashed aboard a case of scotch to sell in the ME
Diverted to Manchester, where the Crew Customs were know for their lack of sense of humour. One steward found that his bag was missing, usual paperwork, signals back to departure station etc. and eventually we were cleared to depart and catch the train down to London. Boarding the train the steward had his suitcase, which he proudly admitted was full of a well know brand of USA small cigars, some of which he had parted with to reward the loaders who had first opened the aircraft door, and been told to locate "his" suitcase and "lose it" !!

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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#34 Post by Ex-Ascot » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:53 am

On the first day of the trial on Tuesday, prosecutor Henry Blackshaw said: "He (Mr Murgatroyd) sought to describe himself as the 'hero of the moment' for executing, as he describes it, a 'forced landing under power' in difficult circumstances.
Without blowing my own trumpet... if it hadn't have been me on that flight that day, you would have probably been collecting four dead people out of that field."
This guy is a complete idiot.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... d-15786328
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#35 Post by Krystal n Chips » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:28 am

Ex-Ascot wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:53 am
On the first day of the trial on Tuesday, prosecutor Henry Blackshaw said: "He (Mr Murgatroyd) sought to describe himself as the 'hero of the moment' for executing, as he describes it, a 'forced landing under power' in difficult circumstances.
Without blowing my own trumpet... if it hadn't have been me on that flight that day, you would have probably been collecting four dead people out of that field."
This guy is a complete idiot.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... d-15786328
Au contraire ..he's perfect !

The beauty of tossers like this is that their pretensions and egos invariably lead to self incrimination .....and your man here has duly obliged. This was covered over on TOP, briefly, but it seems he has some, ahem, " well established history" ... The word "Teflon " was mentioned....alas, "Teflon" degrades over time.

I am actually dealing with one of a similar ilk at the moment, albeit not aviation, but very much safety related, and he's happily providing, unintentionally, plenty of incriminating evidence for the regulatory body concerned. Mind you, he's also thick...took me about 20mins once to explain the principles of cold / hot stream reverse...he genuinely believed the engine reversed !...we would have probably still been there now if I'd ventured into props theory..... !cabin px was a shade easier, he understood the concept of inflating an inner tube with a leak...but was further amazed to learn aircraft have...brake units.

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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#36 Post by cockney steve » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:49 pm

Barton is, indeed, Barton Information, now owned by Peel Holdings, who have just erected a huge new hangar to replace the 2 nissen-hut (arched corrugated tin ) ones opposite the old clubhouse (now a public cafe and very smart) One nissen-type hangar remains, virtually next to the Tower, which still has public access to ground, 1 &2 floors. main 2 runways have been drained and levelled with mixed success and the cross- runways see very little use, as the swamps still defeat their draining attempts. I used to pax with a friend in a Chief, back in the day...the main share in that, was another long-time acquaintance who also had a 152 and a 172 -so I got to pax in all 3. he is a great bloke, did some instructing and shared the scenic flights with John Seville (RIP) John's son was locked-up a while since-probably out now (paedo)
and he, IIRC was involved with the shady focus of this thread, -Murgatroyd. (see daily mail photo of the wreck with "flybpl.com" visible on the side(one of M's numerous failed business- ventures. he" ran an airline" and used to accompany the pilot , sitting in the RHs kidding he was co-jo ! Yes, indeed, a first class rectal orifice!

ISTR (probably wrong) that he was kicked out of blackpool and had relocated that aircraft to Barton on a temporary agreement.
one fellow ho gave me a ride back then, is now a duty-manager there, another, gave me a ride in a Rans 6 and now has about 5 plastic-fantastic microlights and a school there.

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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#37 Post by Flintstone » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:29 pm

The pilot has fessed up. It was "the worst mistake I've ever made in aviation" which was that he forgot to include himself in his calculations. So that's alright then.



What a fahn cahn.

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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#38 Post by Ex-Ascot » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:47 pm

Flintstone wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:29 pm
The pilot has fessed up. It was "the worst mistake I've ever made in aviation" which was that he forgot to include himself in his calculations. So that's alright then.



What a fahn cahn.
Where did you get that from FS? Bet his defence team are not very happy about that confession. Particularly as an illegal non commercial flight he didn't need to lodge a load sheet with ops. Didn't need to cough up. Mind you having seen a photo of him it was a rather 'enormous' error.

Many times I have done load calculations for para dropping with Mrs Ex-Ascot in the RHS on the BN2T and ignored her weight. Both our weights together were less than most of the large nutters down the back with full kit.
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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#39 Post by Cacophonix » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:28 pm

Ex-Ascot wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:58 pm
Pontius Navigator wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:53 pm
What is the actual charge?
Not much really:
Endangering the safety of an aircraft, endangering the safety of a person, flying without an air operator certificate, acting as pilot without holding an appropriate licence, flying an aircraft otherwise than in accordance with the limitations in the flight manual, operating an aircraft without insurance and flying without the aircraft flight manual.
That's all.
So if I understand it correctly, this nincompoop was attempting to run a commercial operation on a PPL, or without any sort of ticket at all, and then jammed a plethora of twitchers and their equipment, into an uninsured spam can, sans the relevant documentation, without doing a weight and balance on a, wet, grass runway, staggered into the air after multiple take off attempts, on a marginal VFR day and then crashed!

What a stupid boy!

The weight and balance thing happened some years back at my local airfield when 4 large gentlemen arrived at the pumps in a PA28 and then proceeded to fill the both tanks to the brim. You didn't need to do any calculation to know that they were totally out of tolerance of the average PA28 without even running the numbers. Even when filled to tabs the aircraft doesn't have scope for four Falstaffian gentlemen as my contrived example shows here.

CofG.JPG
One of the other pilots at the pumps endavoured to tutor them in the way of righteousness but to no avail and they blindly trod their way on the runway to perdition and ignomy and a wrecked aircraft.

Caco

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Re: Court for pilot of Piper Cherokee which crashed on take off from Barton

#40 Post by Ex-Ascot » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:44 pm

Caco, I don't think that enough is covered on aircraft performance for a PPL. OK mine was circa 1977 so maybe it is addressed more these days. As mentioned earlier. Many PPLs think that you can just fill a four seater with four people and fuel half way up the windows and it will zoom up into the sky instead of going ploughing for potatoes as happened in this case.

I never remember weight and balance and trim.sheets ever being covered on my PPL neither does 'er indoors 10 years later.
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

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