Freighter crash, Houston

[k3k3]

I remember seeing a documentary about a DC8 freighter crash, apart from the loaders not including the weight of the pallets in the load calculations, they only secured the foremost and last pallets to the rails, and the actual cause of the crash was the loaders had swapped pallets around to make them physically fit with the effect the C.G. was a long way aft of what it should have been.

On T.O. the aircraft pitched up and crashed off the end of the runway.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

This appears to be a daily flight of just over 2 hours duration. This crew may have been doing this run and return a lot, maybe doing nothing much else. The audio from the copilot sounds like the ATC requests are what he's used to - his responses are immediate, clear and brief.
There is a left turn shortly before the final dive. I think this matches a statement by the copilot that they would go to the west of the storm cells.
The crew were then informed that ATC would like to route them east of the cells due to departing traffic, and that they would be getting a short approach. Since they had already been cleared to 3,000 ft, I would guess they then commenced a descent, with likely a slightly greater control application than normal. If the flightradar altitude data is correct, this descent steepened rapidly. All of the scenarios suggested by our brains trust are possible.
Could be load shift due to the slightly more rapid application of pitch down than previously in the flight (we have to ask why it didn't happen earlier, but of course straps can fail at any time too)
Could be trim or control jack runaway, or a software runaway of pitch demand
Could be something as simple as the jumpseat guy falling forward onto one of the pilots. The weight of two guys on the controls would probably be too much for the other to overcome.
Still possible it could be deliberate. Time to check all three guys' insurance arrangements.
There may have been an attempt after 6 or 8 seconds to pull up, which reduced the descent rate, but this could just be the variability in the vertical speed recording as it does jump around a bit.

I've had a jumpseat ride with Mesa Airlines, it's very common over there.

[Cacophonix]

I have just had a look at PPRuNe and noticed this excellent weather synopsis at the time of the accident posted by Tim Vasquez.. I have enormous respect for Tim and his weather knowledge. He is an ex USAF meteorologist who worked here in the UK when posted here by the USAF and now works as a meteorologist in Texas. I used to use his forecasts when chasing and flying in Texas back in the 1990's and early 2000's.

His posts are worth their weight in gold.

https://www.pprune.org/10399550-post98.html

Caco

[Pontius Navigator]

k3k3, deviation I know but there was a similar crash in Oman with a Skyvan.

They were delivering fuel drums and the strip was known to be hot. To expedite offload the two local loadies released the cargo tie downs. The pilot then initiated an emergency climb as they came under fire. As drums moved aft, and with the doors still shut, the result was as expected.

[Ex-Ascot]

Fox, I thought of trim run away and a deliberate act. Trim runaway possible but a deliberate act with a guy in the jump seat to intervene I would think unlikely. Unless he had a gun of course. At 6,000' in turbulence he would have been strapped in and couldn't fall onto a pilot. I am going for the usually more than one factor to cause an accident. I am guessing, nothing more. Turbulence, load breaks loose and runs forward in the decent causing uncontrollable forward trim. I think that as soon as they get the boxes off the beach combers they will have the answer pretty quickly.

I am not even looking at TOP about this. The bloody amateurs there annoy me intensely.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I agree. Deliberate is least likely, and the chain you describe most likely.

Caco - Thanks, very interesting

[flynverted]

You're not missing anything, mate, 194 pages of garbage. I just wasted 15 minutes of my life reading it.

Edited: 194 posts, not pages... ;)

[Flintstone]

How many of those posts included the NOTAMs, TAFs and METARs for every airport within 50 miles and for two days before and after the crash?

[Boac]

Damn! I knew I had missed something out.............

[Ex-Ascot]

Damn! I knew I had missed something out.............

You didn't actually Boac, the Metars are all in the link you posted: http://avherald.com/h?article=4c497c3c&opt=0

[Boac]

Phew! Thanks for that. That's a relief.

[Boac]

CVR recovered.

[Cacophonix]

CVR recovered.

So we can all sit back drink a beer and wait for the investigators' findings. With respect to these accident threads here the tumbleweeds, blowing around the deserted aviation halls, are actually sometimes appropriate. For the rest a sign of moribundity. An ill wind and all that...

Caco

[Ex-Ascot]

Agree Caco. It is possible that the CVR alone will give us the answer. Unless it has just recorded, 'Oh *****'.

[Ex-Ascot]

I do not know if this is of interest. I gave up trying to watch it on our slow internet.

https://www.khou.com/video/news/a-virtu ... 8d183838f6

[Pontius Navigator]

Access denied Ex

[Slasher]

Saw the clip sah. No big deal. There's nothing on it we don't already know.

[Ex-Ascot]

Saw the clip sah. No big deal. There's nothing on it we don't already know.

Copied Capt and PN. Hopefully we will get something from the CVR this week. This is an interesting one. I have always been fascinated by Air Accident Investigation. I really should have gone into it instead of the airlines but they don't give you four gold bars to pose around an airport in and a dozen girlies to cater for your every whim. Suppose it could have been written into the contract.

[Cacophonix]

Saw the clip sah. No big deal. There's nothing on it we don't already know.

Copied Capt and PN. Hopefully we will get something from the CVR this week. This is an interesting one.

I have always been fascinated by Air Accident Investigation. I really should have gone into it instead of the airlines but they don't give you four gold bars to pose around an airport in and a dozen girlies to cater for your every whim. Suppose it could have been written into the contract.

A kind of big tin Quincey!



Starring Ex-Ascot as the ever debonair air crash investigator!

Caco

[Slasher]

I really should have gone into it instead of the airlines but they don't give you four gold bars to pose around an airport in and a dozen girlies to cater for your every whim. Suppose it could have been written into the contract.

Prang investigators sah aren't given a mutimillion dollar aeroplane filled with booze and chicks and sent outa town!