Freighter crash, Houston

[Pontius Navigator]

At least I am sure the investigation will find the cause but sudden unexplained crashes are very worrying. Is it unique circumstances or a fleet problem.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Worse Caco - you sound like someone from TOP! ;)

One remembers the Chinook gearbox problem, PN, where the signal grounding the fleet after the first accident took just a bit longer to get to the Falklands, by which time one of theirs had crashed with the same problem. Prayers, blind luck, and/or more beers are the only things that can help any of us against the unknowns like that.

[Boac]

Or the Mull of Kintyre Chinook crash where the aircraft was not actually airworthy but in service.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I sometimes wonder if any RAF aircraft has ever been fully airworthy. The F3 had a known problem with the ejector seat which could kill you even if you did everything right. Only Squadron Bosses were told and ordered to keep schtum, but they immediately told all the crews. It is believed to have killed one guy I knew.
Mind you, I was very familiar with the Mull accident report since I was a Station Flight Safety Officer just before that, and Bill Wratten had been my AOC 11 Group. Very dodgy indeed, though I have to say that with the problems the aircraft had, I struggle to see why the crew made or followed the plan they did. However, Bill was clearly breaking the rules of the Manual of Flight Safety (which I was very familiar with) to find them guilty of gross negligence.

[Slasher]

It could be either cargo or maint related. 767s don't go around breaking apart in severe wx. If they did there'd be none left by now.

[Cacophonix]

Worse Caco - you sound like someone from TOP! ;)

One remembers the Chinook gearbox problem, PN, where the signal grounding the fleet after the first accident took just a bit longer to get to the Falklands, by which time one of theirs had crashed with the same problem. Prayers, blind luck, and/or more beers are the only things that can help any of us against the unknowns like that.

Harsh but fair Fox3.

Caco

[Cacophonix]

It could be either cargo or maint related. 767s don't go around breaking apart in severe wx. If they did there'd be none left by now.

Given enough cycles even Boeings will come apart. Remember Aloha Airlines Flight 243?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_A ... Flight_243

Caco

[Slasher]

Well yeh Caco...but that Aloha was to do with quality of a maint inspection. That's why I put forward maybe cargo or maintenance in this case.

[Cacophonix]

Well yeh Caco...but that Aloha was to do with quality of a maint inspection. That's why I put forward maybe cargo or maintenance in this case.

Sure and I accept that and my point was that there are usually multiple reasons for an accident and that aircraft do come apart or crash based on those reasons.

This is your cue, as per TOP, to slate me for not having 15000 hours 767 time, question my heritage, my parental origins and point out the ludicrous post that I made in 1996 about the naked girl in suspenders on top of the balloon when erroneously explaining the difference between ground and air speed!

Caco

[admin]

Flightradar data equates to a zero 'g' dive, from 6,000 ft to crash, in 16 seconds. Final airspeed shown as 486 kts. This would appear to match the other known data, such as the short distance from the final turn to the crash site, the wreckage distribution, and the lack of a mayday.

Don't know about the other stuff, but pleased to welcome Fox back. We've missed you.


Alison

[Slasher]

Of course - the old "Swiss cheese holes lineup" that was forever drummed into me every bloody CRM sesh. And I hate friggin' Swiss cheese! Horrible tasting godawful crap that it is. Guess we'll have to wait till the CVR/DFDR is found and read.

Nah I'm not gonna berate you for not having 20,000hrs in a 76'. I know yer heritage, marital status of your parents at birth, that you didn't provide a METAR at the accident site, nor give you the "so wadda you know...bub?" etc etc.

But I should point out your post of jealousy re my JB willywagging with Go Girl and Pilots Pal during the latter parts of the '90s which means you have no rights nor experience to comment on let alone reason out any 767 prang at all!

Now where's that METAR?

[Cacophonix]

Of course - the old "Swiss cheese holes lineup" that was forever drummed into me every bloody CRM sesh. And I hate friggin' Swiss cheese! Horrible tasting godawful crap that it is. Guess we'll have to wait till the CVR/DFDR is found and read.

Nah I'm not gonna berate you for not having 20,000hrs in a 76'. I know yer heritage, marital status of your parents at birth, that you didn't provide a METAR at the accident site, nor give you the "so wadda you know...bub?" etc etc.

But I should point out your post of jealousy re my JB relationships with Go Girl and Pilots Pal during the latter parts of the '90s which means you have no rights nor experience to comment on let alone reason out any 767 prang at all!

Now where's that METAR?

Caco

[Boac]

In the NTSB (first daily) briefing they said there is security footage from a nearby jail of the last 5 seconds of the dive.

[Cacophonix]

In the NTSB (first daily) briefing they said there is security footage from a nearby jail of the last 5 seconds of the dive.

The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) has obtained security video showing Atlas Air flight 3591 in a “steep nose-down attitude” prior to crashing in Trinity Bay near Houston on 23 February.

“The aircraft is in the video… at a steep descent – [a] steep nose-down attitude,” NTSB chair Robert Sumwalt said during a press conference on 24 February. “I saw no evidence of the aircraft trying to turn or pull up at the last moments.”

The security video was taken from a county jail at a distance of slightly more than 1nm (1.9km) from the site where the Boeing 767-300ER Freighter crashed following a flight from Miami.

Authorities have confirmed three people were aboard the aircraft. Atlas Air says there were no survivors.

The video shows the aircraft for approximately 5s, says Sumwalt, adding that the NTSB is sending the footage to laboratories in Washington DC for analysis.

He made his comments in Anahuac, Texas, which is near the crash site. The agency’s top priority is to recover the flight data and cockpit voice recorders, a process that may require dredging, divers or wading “through the debris field and feeling for them”, says Sumwalt.

He also confirmed several details about the flight, which took off from Miami at about 11:30 local time. The 767 was approaching Houston George Bush Intercontinental airport on the “standard arrival routes from the south-east”, says Sumwalt.

At about 12:30 Houston time, the aircraft was descending through 18,000ft. Shortly after, Houston air traffic controllers advised the pilots of “light-to-heavy rain ahead, and provided radar vectors around the weather”, Sumwalt says.

Controllers then cleared Atlas flight 3591 to descend to 3,000ft.

At 12:39, while the aircraft was at about 6,000ft and travelling at 240kt, “communication was lost with the aircraft, as was radar contact”, Sumwalt says. “There was no distress call.”

The aircraft had not been logged as carrying hazardous materials, he adds.

The NTSB has recovered “remains of both wings” and landing gear components from a debris field that measures about 183m (600ft) by 91m, Sumwalt says.

“We have conducted aerial surveys and up-close examination of debris fields via airboats,” he adds. The NTSB intends to load debris onto barges for transport to shore and onward to a local hangar.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation has recovered two bodies and is assisting the NTSB with collection of witness statements and documentation of debris, says an FBI spokesperson.

The criminal investigation agency’s involvement in the early stages of NTSB investigations is common practice, he adds.

The Federal Aviation Administration, Boeing, Atlas Air, the National Air Traffic Controllers Association, pilot union International Brotherhood of Teamsters and engine maker General Electric are assisting the NTSB with the inquiry, says Sumwalt.

Boeing manufactured the CF6-80C2-powered 767-300ER, registration N1217A, in 1992 and delivered it new to Canadian International Airlines, according to Cirium Fleets Analyzer.

Atlas Air affiliate Titan Aviation Leasing acquired the aircraft in January 2016, at which time it entered service with Atlas Air, Fleets Analyzer shows.

Parent company Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings owns both Atlas Air and Titan.

Since April 2017, Atlas Air has operated the 767 for online retailer Amazon under the Prime Air brand, Fleets Analyzer shows.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... as-456054/

There is video doing the rounds on the web purporting to be this video. If so the aicraftt was in a steep dive and intact before impact.

Caco

[Cacophonix]

Captain Sean Archuleta,

Capt. Sean Archuleta is a pilot with Mesa Airlines, based in Houston, and he’d just hopped a ride from Miami riding in the jet’s jumpseat.

How unlucky can you be.

The Wail noted he was the Captain of the 767. Not so it seems but this was subsequently corrected.

10203710-6739049-Pilot_Sean_Archuleta_died_in_the_crash_of_the_Amazon_Prime_plane-m-15_1550991641435.jpg (48.33 KiB) Viewed 531 times

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... e-Air.html

Caco

[Cacophonix]

The name of the two crew and the dead heading Captain in the jump seat have been named.

The captain was Rick Blakely

Rick Blakely.JPG (21.79 KiB) Viewed 515 times

and his FO was Conrad Jules Aska.

Conrad Jules Aska.JPG (25.47 KiB) Viewed 515 times

https://heavy.com/news/2019/02/atlas-ai ... inity-bay/

Multiple witnesses are now reporting the aircraft dived at high speed into the shallow water.

Caco

[Ex-Ascot]

Multiple witnesses are now reporting the aircraft dived at high speed into the shallow water.

So we are talking break up on impact. It would be interesting to see that cctv footage. What causes a sudden dive? Could be a load shift forward in the decent. Perhaps, only perhaps, the load broke free in the turbulence. If they were not full the load was probably over the C of G and could have gone rushing forwards on the rails. If full it had nowhere to move to. Sorry not up to speed on freighting. The last was an aircraft chockers with 1,000 pounders in the Gulf war. That would have made a bang if we had pranged.

[Pontius Navigator]

Load shift would seem possible. If it slammed toward it might have taken the flight deck out, throttles push forward, pilots pushed forward, control yoke too?

Possible?

[Ex-Ascot]

Load shift would seem possible. If it slammed toward it might have taken the flight deck out, throttles push forward, pilots pushed forward, control yoke too?

Possible?

The rails would have stoppers on them but could of course have jumped those. If it was a heavy load central fuselage the trim change of it rolling forward could have been impossible to control. Why don't these freighters carry loadmasters? Yep, safety costs money. If the load had come adrift (not saying it did) on a C130 or any Royal Air Force freighting flight the Captain would have been advised and could stay in level flight until the load had been re-secured.

[Pontius Navigator]

Ex-A, and on C5 too, the loadie was always off around the cargo deck.