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Really glad I never flew AB! That does not look right to me. Felt sick just watching it.
Looks like a PIO to me - I have been into GIB a few times and it can be rough but those repetitive cycles are odd. It seemed to stop the instant the flaps started up. Any AB drivers comment?

Boac wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:21 pm

Really glad I never flew AB! That does not look right to me. Felt sick just watching it.
Looks like a PIO to me - I have been into GIB a few times and it can be rough but those repetitive cycles are odd. It seemed to stop the instant the flaps started up. Any AB drivers comment?

I assume there is a video associated with this wobbly approach?

Caco

Your wish is my command oh master

Sorry - a glass of UK-based Moonshine to blame....thanks Caco

Think it’s going to be a no tea and biccies meeting.

Other than a very strong variable wind > 50 kts in mech turb I got no idea what caused it. My guess is the above moonshine suggestion or the drivers just wanted to piss the pax off.

Alternatively there might've been a brawl over who has control with a "DUAL INPUT! DUAL INPUT!" from the cockpit auto yeller.

But that said we invented our own fun at times...

Having pitched into Gib a few times, I can explain. I think he's getting an Easterly Levanter wind over the Rock. Us fighter types, due to the Spanish being difficult, had to fly a Northerly track, then do a 100 degree right turn at under a mile finals*. We had a 15 kt wind limit due to the Levanter turbulence. I saw a Jag guy who'd done an approach in 18 kts, and he needed a change of underwear. The civvies are allowed a straight in over Spanish airspace, so they are further from the rock and will have a higher limit, but they will also have more gust response than a swept wing jet. He's probably got 25 kts-30 kts of wind. As one gets close to the runway, which is to the North of the Rock, the turbulence drops off. One to three miles out is worst. It's unlikely to be pilot error, it's just a real bitch to fly in.
The wind is generally straight easterly, due to it being funneled between the mountains in Europe and Africa, but the Rock is highest at the North End. So, I expect there's a bit of a lateral vortex kicking in from his starboard bow, setting off the roll oscillation. There may be some PIO involved, I was never allowed a straight-in so I don't know, but there's not much one can do about those vortices.

*But we like being ordered to do that sort of thing

So it was wind turb then.

Stick bank input on the 320 and upwards is a roll rate demand in Normal and Alternate Law. Newbies can be picked out by their PIOs in rapid variable strong crosswinds.

Flight crew probably wanted to check that everything had been correctly stowed in the cabin. Or (b), perhaps the sick bags were reaching their expiry date and they didn't want to waste them.

I've only flown in to Gibraltar three times. During the roll-out on the last occasion the Tower instructed us to remain on the runway as "Your wheels are on fire".

As you know the runway there is bisected by the road which joins Spain to Gibraltar, the road being closed when the runway is in use. Needless to say we were somewhat unpopular with several hundred drivers and pedestrians while we waited for the water fairies to come out and have a look. Although it was only smoke from brake fluid leaking onto the discs it still took about fifteen minutes for them to declare it safe to open the gates.

I went out the next morning in search of a local paper which I really hoped would have a headline something like 'Aircraft Incident Closes Road. Spain Cut Off From Civilisation'. Sadly, 'twas not to be.

Yours Truly causing an international traffic jam in Gib/Spain thirty years ago.
Not that I gave a stuff, since I hadn't yet taken my car licence
The Tornado F3 was my first 4 wheeled vehicle.

Thanks Woody and Boac for posting in the first place.


+1 @ Fox3

That was a severely destabilised approach.

Caco

I enjoy reading these anecdotes from people who have done 'interesting things' - especially when they were much younger than they are today.

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:04 pm

ze786 tornado f3 gib 89.jpg

Yours Truly causing an international traffic jam in Gib/Spain thirty years ago.
Not that I gave a stuff, since I hadn't yet taken my car licence
The Tornado F3 was my first 4 wheeled vehicle.

You don't seem to have any wheels there there at all Fox

If it was a dodgy wind we used to sod the spic airspace and do a straight in. Then you just go to ATC and sign the infringement book with reason - flight safety.

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:04 pm

ze786 tornado f3 gib 89.jpg

Well that pisses all over my smokey brakes.

The F3 got airborne in 2,000 ft, and the Gib runway is 6,000 ft with the road bisecting it as Flintstone said. If you look closely, you can see the main wheels just completing retraction; the nosewheel(s) are already stowed.
Personally, I think smokey brakes shows it took more skill for you to stop there than me. With the thrust reverse and lift dump pre-armed before touchdown, the F3 could stop from 150 kts in 1,200 ft.
Some of the Buccaneers we worked with there had take-off rolls of 5,700 ft. Rather them than me!

Impressive pic F3. Nice job despite not having a driving licence.

Just think, I could have been a top tier photocopier sales rep...but no driving licence, so there was nothing left but to join the air force




(Some of you may remember the RAF did a recruitment campaign in the 1980s where they listed all the amazing recruiting blurb for jobs such as local government officer and sales rep, under a picture of an F3 silhouetted against a sunset)

I went to Gib a couple of times, got a free coach ride along the Costa Del Concrete the second time because of torrential rain preventing the aircraft from landing. It diverted to Tangier, then to Malaga when it was clear that the weather wasn't going to improve, so we had to go meet it. We flew Monarch from Luton back then.