ET crash ADD NBO

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Boac
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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#541 Post by Boac » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:25 am

Unless there are any more 'nasties' in the Boeing woodpile (place your bets...) a 'September' resolution plus testing and world-wide agreement looks a bit like 2020.

Slasher

Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#542 Post by Slasher » Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:01 am

To offset CNN's usual fake news ***** here's what's really happening at the moment:



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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#543 Post by Boac » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:07 pm

Well, I think CNN got it pretty much right for the man in the street (and published earlier - and hindsight is, as we know, a wonderful thing) but obviously not for Slasher.

The big surprise here for we qualified 737 drivers is that we all thought the c/c switch drove the tail trim 'directly', with only a 'Flaps UP' or 'Flaps Down' signal to change trim response speed. High-speed for Flaps Down and v v. It now appears the 'direct' drive goes through numerous 'micro-processors' anyone of which can do dastardly things to the response to a simple pilot input.

A big question for me is - is this yet another Boeing 'sneak-it-in' change to the way it was done, giving the opportunity for a failure somewhere in the system or has this routing for the trim been there all the time in previous types eg the NG - in which case - wtf ELSE have the Boeing/FAA been ignoring up to now? :-o

I look back now on my (sole) time on the 737 and wonder if I had just been damn lucky that particular sh!t had not hit my fan.

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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#544 Post by ian16th » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:13 pm

Boac wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:07 pm

A big question for me is - is this yet another Boeing 'sneak-it-in' change to the way it was done, giving the opportunity for a failure somewhere in the system or has this routing for the trim been there all the time in previous types eg the NG - in which case - wtf ELSE have the Boeing/FAA been ignoring up to now? :-o
From a point of ignorance, from someone who hasn't applied a spanner or screwdriver to an a/c for 54 years.

Surely any such changes MUST be documented in the technical manuals.
Therefore the servicing staff would know of any such changes.
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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#545 Post by Boac » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:28 pm

Not necessarily, as I understand it from a driver's perspective. The increasing prevalence of 'black boxes' in modern aircraft COULD lead to a 'just change the box' system of fixing snags rather than a detailed knowledge of the multi-wiggly-amps that go through the boxes. Many the time I have returned a 737 with a 'strange' failure that might defeat logic and the almost eternal response is taken from the following list:
1) Power down, power up., ground test, no fault found. Doesn't seem to happen again.
2) Swap boxes left to right or vv. if applicable (see 1) above.
3) Open E&E bay and 're-rack' the box (see 1) above.
4) Change pilot, fault fixed....................... =))

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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#546 Post by ian16th » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:59 pm

So it seems that with the solid state electronics becoming denser, the need for the Liney to know what is happening inside the box is becoming less.
He just knows what it does, not how it does it, and if it goes u/s it is returned to the maker!

Do the military, such as the RAF works this way today?

Since my involvement, I've wondered how a modern Avionics Fitter, could replace all of the Electrical, Instrument, Wireless and Radar fitters we needed in the 50's and 60's.
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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#547 Post by llondel » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:20 pm

I once had a computer which would occasionally go unreliable. Removing and replacing all connectors and chips in sockets would usually restore the reliability. Chances are it was only one of them causing the problem but it was easier to just do that than it was to figure out which one was really the problem.

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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#548 Post by ian16th » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:31 pm

llondel wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:20 pm
I once had a computer which would occasionally go unreliable. Removing and replacing all connectors and chips in sockets would usually restore the reliability. Chances are it was only one of them causing the problem but it was easier to just do that than it was to figure out which one was really the problem.
But that unreliability didn't have life & death consequences.
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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#549 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:37 pm

The problem with the complexity is that the human brain is incapable of understanding all of it and doing the job. The Tornado Aircrew Manual had a gatefold page in the flight controls section with around 1,000 lines and 50-odd boxes on it labelled "Roll Channel - simplified". You can't learn that and have time to do your day job of flying it, and 99.99% of the time learning it isn't going to help you in an emergency. This is no different to the previous generation of flight controls, which appeared in the Aircrew Manual as "a suitable system of pulleys, levers, and bellcranks". So the basic principles of system design must be observed. The aircrew (and engineers) must be able to recognise a system failure, isolate it or be aware of its effects, and take corrective action. The "take corrective action" bit appears not to be possible, in that the pitch trim response in manual is too slow. Essentially this means the system has not been fail-safe designed, which means it is another system in the MAX which has not been fail-safe designed. And that, you might remember, was why I said way back I wouldn't fly in the MAX even if they fixed the MCAS. And just like in air combat when you spot "the other guy" and immediately start looking for "the other other guy", one has to ask again "what else else have Boeing f#cked up on with the MAX?"

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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#550 Post by Alisoncc » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:18 am

ian16th wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:13 pm
From a point of ignorance, from someone who hasn't applied a spanner or screwdriver to an a/c for 54 years.
Still spannerizing GA aeries as recently as 1997, Ian. Software business went belly-up, made good money as casual fixing King and Collins kit in workshop. Even got to play on the aeries. Did initial GPS installs on Flying Doctor Kingies.

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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#551 Post by ian16th » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:05 pm

Cynicism improves with age

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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#552 Post by Boac » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:06 pm

The Justice Department, FBI and the Transportation Department's inspector general's office have been looking to see if the Dow Jones giant provided misleading information about the Boeing 737 Max to regulators and customers following two deadly crashes.

But now the DOJ has subpoenaed records at a North Charleston, S.C., factory where the Boeing 787 Dreamliner is made, amid allegations of poor-quality work, the Seattle Times reported Friday.

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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#553 Post by Boac » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:16 am

Ah! Blame it on ANYBODY except..................

https://interestingengineering.com/indi ... ax-failure

Just waiting now for the Chump to blame the Iranians, NK (sorry, strike - they are my friends today), foreign pilots, China/Huawei, Postman Pat's cat.................

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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#554 Post by ian16th » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:58 pm

Cynicism improves with age

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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#555 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:23 pm

Muppet H1B designers on $9 an hour.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -engineers

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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#556 Post by Boac » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:41 pm

NAS are having another go at the ferry of a MAX to Stockholm from Gran Can but this one seems to be landing in Malaga!! Hope they have their suitcases with them............ =))

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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#557 Post by Boac » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:26 pm

Airborne again, heading north over France, cruising at 20,000ft.

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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#558 Post by Boac » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:49 pm

Here's interesting! At 20000ft GS is 336kts at present. This suggests (IAS estimated about 250kts) the regulator may be requiring them to fly with Flap 1? I wonder where they will land next?

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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#559 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:57 pm

Having had to limp home a few times at 250 kts (engine air bleed failure, or gear down, on the Tornado), any longer than a 2 hour flight time and they are at serious risk of dying of boredom ;)))

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Re: ET crash ADD NBO

#560 Post by Boac » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:59 pm

Heading up the French coast towards Dutchland. Hope they have set the wake-up alarm.

Even DaveReidUK on TOP hasn't noticed! Shame on him. :))

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