Why only Capts should do the initial walkaround.

[boing]

It is the unusual, or not normal, same thing, that you are looking for.

Will a fuel panel be open during a turn-round? Yes if the bowser is positioning to the aircraft or the fueler is pulling out the hoses. That fueling is going to last until after your cockpit checks are completed so unless you are super cautious you rely on the worker to do his job and close the panel correctly. Should a fuel panel be unlocked when there is no fueler near the aircraft or fueling is completed, obviously not.

The whole point of a walk-around is to find the unusual. Cargo doors open, normal. Engine oil access panel open, might be worth checking on this. Pitot covers on -- ding, ding, ding -- obvious fault. The walk-around check is not a complex operation on a commercial airliner at a normal airport, it gets rather more complicated for those transiting Little Podunk City airport but that is a matter where Captain's judgement should apply.

A meticulous walk-around is the first thing demonstrated on your first instructional flight, it is fundamental to safe flight and any licensed pilot who is qualified to fly the aircraft should be able to either complete the examination perfectly or have the common sense to take action over concerns with the intent of erring on the side of safety.

The company I worked for had a series of photo slides showing aspects of the walk-around. Some showed views of normal status simply to show what should be checked. Other slides had faults introduced to teach the trainees to spot them.


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[Slasher]

Yeh the walk around slides were same with us during LOFTs OPCs and physically during LCs. In all cases the checkie would ask the trickiest questions which were primarily directed at captains. The accompanying F/O during LOFT/OPC was expected to take notes.

I recall a huge brawl with Engineering in RUH when we had a rare aircraft swap there - the #1 brake of the aircraft I took over was worn way below limits (via the visual wear indicator). The damn engineer assigned said it was worn but just within limits. I then disagreed and called for the Supervisor and to drag the AMM out with him. The AMM cut the original Engineer's throat.

The F/O had a look (1,000h total) and said it didn't look what he'd normally expect but "seemed okayish" I said bloody right it doesn't look normal! We eventually buggered off with the useless brake deactivated which caused a 46 min delay (20mins for deactivation procedure and 26 min due to all the friggin' arguing).

After airborne I asked the F/O if he had done the walkaround would he've reported the brake to me? He said no probably not. At least he was honest.

On arr in the Gulf I called up the (bloody local) capt who operated into RUH and asked WTF? He said sorry but he didn't see anything as his 300h wonder did the initial.

Delay was written up not blaming the prev captain (just the bare facts) but he copped sh!t from the Fleet office. He tried to pin it all on allah and the F/O. He was strongly reminded that he was the PIC and that's that. Bloody allah had nothing to do with it.

A strong letter was sent by the office, I heard later, to our base Engineering dept berating the twit who'd signed off the aircraft as serviceable.

[Pontius Navigator]

Old saying "if there's doubt there is no doubt"

[Boac]

Why only Capts should do the initial walkaround.

- what if it is raining or snowing?

[Ex-Ascot]

Why only Capts should do the initial walkaround.

- what if it is raining or snowing?

Or they are emptying the waste tanks.

[Slasher]

I did it day or night whether ice rain snow sleet slush or bog-tank emptying.

Nearly got sprayed once wrt the last when the hose suddenly fell off. The stream missed me by mere inches.

I very politely told the engineer "please clean that sh!t up!"

[Ex-Ascot]

I did it day or night whether ice rain snow sleet slush or bog-tank emptying.

Nearly got sprayed once wrt the last when the hose suddenly fell off. The stream missed me by mere inches.

I very politely told the engineer "please clean that sh!t up!"

On the Andover (HS748) it was a removable bucket like thing. Can't think what it was called but literally had to be lifted out of the khazi taken off the aircraft and emptied. A couple of times in India and here, on the grass at the side of the apron. Ground handler somewhere once asked our crew chief where the plugin was for the bog emptying. The system was explained to him. He was amazed at this crude system. Crew chief said that it was a Queen's Flight aircraft you couldn't expect HMQ to walk to the bog. it was taken to her.

And, yes I have nearly been caught a few times with the bog crew but very cautious. Once bitten twice covered in *****.

[Pontius Navigator]

This is probably as good a place to ask Slasher a question based on pilots and Airbus stick monkeys.

Without doubt more hours means more experience but quality counts over quantity. The number of flights with 8 hour high level transatlantic segments will not match a similar number of pounding around a busy environment.

So my question, is an Airbus only driver with thousands of hours with a side stick controller less skilled than one with a yoke or stick?

[Pontius Navigator]

I did it day or night whether ice rain snow sleet slush or bog-tank emptying.

Nearly got sprayed once wrt the last when the hose suddenly fell off. The stream missed me by mere inches.

I very politely told the engineer "please clean that sh!t up!"

On the Andover (HS748) it was a removable bucket like thing. Can't think what it was called but literally had to be lifted out of the khazi taken off the aircraft and emptied. A couple of times in India and here, on the grass at the side of the apron. Ground handler somewhere once asked our crew chief where the plugin was for the bog emptying. The system was explained to him. He was amazed at this crude system. Crew chief said that it was a Queen's Flight aircraft you couldn't expect HMQ to walk to the bog. it was taken to her.

And, yes I have nearly been caught a few times with the bog crew but very cautious. Once bitten twice covered in *sh*t*.

Did you know the dunny carrier was entitled to extra pay per day not per bucket 50p. They would ensure the s**t was passed around so that the 50p was paid to as many people as possible.

If Alison is looking, did pee tube draining count for extra payment?

[Rwy in Sight]

Maybe we need to run a Slasher questioning thread.

[Boac]

PN - re your post #28 - I'm sure Slasher will not mind my posting his picture here, which answers your question.

18cc9cea-5e33-48a1-9069-0b609eae7c53.jpg (27.48 KiB) Viewed 180 times

Remember the Airbus quote? "It is so simple my concierge could fly it". The mistake Air France made, I guess, was not to put the concierge in the cockpit of AF447..............

[ian16th]

On the Andover (HS748) it was a removable bucket like thing. Can't think what it was called but literally had to be lifted out of the khazi taken off the aircraft and emptied.

They were called Elsan's!

They were standard on the Hastings & Beverley's.

[llondel]

How does it go, "flying is easy, it's the landings that are hard"? The worse you are, the harder they are.

Landing on water at a vertical speed of a few hundred MPH is definitely a bad idea.

[TheGreenGoblin]

These Airbus vis a vis Boeing memes are very amusing....

ATR-SuperCritical.JPG (51.07 KiB) Viewed 163 times

[ExSp33db1rd]

When I board now I ask the cabin crew ... " Is this a Boeing or a Scarebus ? If it ain't Boein'" I ain't Goin'." Boeing crews love it, not so the Scarebus lot.

[Slasher]

Maybe we need to run a Slasher questioning thread.

Depends on what questions you'll eventually ask me RiS!

So my question, is an Airbus only driver with thousands of hours with a side stick controller less skilled than one with a yoke or stick?

Actually the transition from Scarebus to Boeing is far easier than the vv. Having essentially cut me jet teeth on Boeings I wondered WTF struck me when I transitioned to the 320 in Tooloose. Stuck with the course thinking I'd be only on the bloody thing for a year or two.

11,000h and 14 years later...

[probes]

He now sends his co-pilot out onto the wing....

what an ingenious solution, eh? [or would it be 'ingenuous'? - ok, ok, the world of words is puzzling]

[Pontius Navigator]

How does the Co get on to the wing? Up a platform lift?

[Rwy in Sight]

Just a boring question: if some nationalities are better to speak their mind and accept discussion about cockpit issues than others, Slasher? In other words are some nationalities better at CRM than others. I never thought about asking you something in another field in an open forum Slasher!

[Boac]

Probes/PN - a slightly misleading item, since it refers to a 'Corporate Jet' where the wing may only be a few feet off the ground. There is no way on a 'big' jet you do that. The upper surface is 'inaccessible' normally. Only a visual inspection is possible apart from a quick 'feel' for ice at the LEs and TEs. My 'external' check always included a 'walk' of the cabin looking out at both wings, but I think that is rare - I was certainly frequently told it was both 'rare' and 'odd' .

RiS - in the UK we are ourselves only a few years past the 'Captain is god' and must not be questioned scenario, if, indeed, we are! Now, of course, we have an inrush of very inexperienced RHS, and a valid question is are they actually capable of recognising the need for a challenge?