More Boeing Bad News

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Fox3WheresMyBanana
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#161 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:24 pm

Three new ones, I think. They had me down for all the last 5 but two bigwigs decided they wanted to collect the final two. I was very happy about that. You see, the final couple include all the components that they had in the training workshops. They don't throw those away. Even though they've had God knows how many apprentices poking and bodging them for years, they end up in the last couple of airplanes. The company test aircrew do the first flight, but the workers don't come out onto the pan expecting an 'impressive' departure like they do when the 'customer' turns up. And of course it was more 'exciting' personally because I'm not as good as the test pilots, so it was likely to be far more entertaining if something serious went wrong. :-o

I also flew a number of F3s that had been Christmas trees for a while whilst waiting for spares when the RAF hit its first post-Cold War spares crisis. You'd have lots of captions and weird sh!t happening, some false warnings, some real. Me and another sim instructor, both very used to multiple emergencies handling, and also both systems lecturers, would I think sensibly be given the job of doing a "shakedown" and bringing the jet home, normally within 15 minutes, to see what fell off and what didn't. This is worth bearing in mind given how long the MAXs will have been in storage. I'm sure the guys at Davis-Monthan have even more entertaining tales to tell about getting aircraft airborne out of storage.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#162 Post by barkingmad » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:43 am

P N, following on from the B58 incident the Bae ATP in line revenue service frequently lost it’s shiny new display screens on liftoff leaving the flight crew with black screens in the middle of which were the yellow letters I/O, meaning inoperative! Clever stuff.

Luckily there were still miniature analogue dials available to help keep the blue side up until the appropriate checklist and c/b tripping could restore the displays. I gather it may have been triggered by the ground/air logic but I’m recalling the frequent incident reports from those halcyon days as I never had the unbounded joy of operating this beast..j ~X(

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#163 Post by Pontius Navigator » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:54 am

ATP reminds me of an accounting and delivery issue. There was mention of 787 being delivered and immediately returned to Seattle.

Well on this occasion we had green rain. Just before Christmas a succession of green painted ATP suddenly dropped in to Kinloss. As suddenly, come the New Year, they departed.

It was something to do with BAE accounting year, but why Kinloss?

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#164 Post by barkingmad » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:24 am

Maybe the Kinloss ATPs were full of Bae executives coming to look at a Nimrod, or to explain why they were going to manufacture an updated version and then promptly destroy the new airframes even before they flew? Imagine the ATP as a maritime Nimrod successor? Aaaaaarrrgh!

Or the wind was outa limits for Aberdeen?

Or like the BEA Viscount which did an approach to Lossie’s runway 29 and got below the level of the treetops surrounding the Sun Cdr’s house before they realised it was the wrong airfield and the RR Darts screamed during the go-around as they slunk off to land at Kinloss, then being used for commercial ops whilst Inverness was being extended and resurfaced.

But like my early Xwind landings I detect some drift....... =))

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#165 Post by Boac » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:01 am

If it is time for war stories, I air-tested a Mk6 Lightning out of deep service at Leuchars. Max rpm (in reheat) were to be recorded on the t/o roll. As I engage the burners, both rpm gauges (bottom right of the front panel....and unsecured) slid gently out of the panel and down the right hand shelf on their cables. Being made of strong stuff I retrieved them, noted the readings and pushed them back in to the panel at a 'safe' height. :))

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#166 Post by Slasher » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:09 am

The MCP on the 737-400 I thought was just a small rectangular box of white man’s magic held in place by a few screws.

One very dark **** night we had no choice but to punch a hole through a particular nasty line of unbroken thunderies over China. Those of you who’ve experienced the place in Summer will know what I’m talking about. As we were getting our arses thrashed the MCP box started to drift out of the combing panel! The F/O had to keep his hand up against it to stop it from completely falling out while I was trying to ensure the damn aeroplane stayed right side up while we were both experiencing the infamous eyeball bounce.

After we emerged on the other side we surmised the unit needs nursing as we couldn’t find the retainer screws. I remained clear of other weather to stop this thing from falling out in our laps. I duly wrote up the tech log.

I needn’t‘ve worried. After arrival the techie pulled out the MCP - and he kept pulling and pulling. The bloody thing is bigger than a frigging slab! I was worried about a couple of inches. It’s when it pokes out a couple of feet you need to be concerned!

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#167 Post by Rwy in Sight » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:44 am

Can I still ask again what a pilot could have done about the newly discovered wire issue?

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#168 Post by barkingmad » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:53 am

Rwy in Sight wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:44 am
Can I still ask again what a pilot could have done about the newly discovered wire issue?
Rapidly reviewed and spiritually reconnected with his/her chosen religion and made their peace with whomsoever? ^#(^

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#169 Post by Rwy in Sight » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:59 pm

barkingmad wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:53 am
Rwy in Sight wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:44 am
Can I still ask again what a pilot could have done about the newly discovered wire issue?
Rapidly reviewed and spiritually reconnected with his/her chosen religion and made their peace with whomsoever? ^#(^
Not very optimistic

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#170 Post by barkingmad » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:11 pm

Wiring short-circuits and/or inductance effects outside the pressure hull are difficult to sort inflight.

It’s possible dumping AC electrics and reducing to batt level ops might solve the problem, doubtless they’ve tried it in the simulator and will soon have some sort of direction for the lucky few who will experience this one.

Otherwise Allah uh Ahkbar it is!

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#171 Post by Boac » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:33 pm

With any luck it might short out MCAS =))

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#172 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:44 pm

:YMAPPLAUSE:

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#173 Post by barkingmad » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:20 pm

Boac wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:33 pm
With any luck it might short out MCAS =))
+1 ! Another possible scenario for the sim sadists? :((

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#174 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:27 pm

As a former sim sadist*, battle damage was a favourite way to generate multiple obscure failures. We would do this scientifically by toddling along to the ginger beers' battle damage repair exercises and working out with them what would be affect by cannon shells or missiles going off in particular places. For non-battle damage, a possible mechanism is indeed either an electrical short or a hydraulic leak (or both) leading to a fire in a particular compartment.


*part of the job spec, I'm not naturally a sadist ;)))

..although I'm a surprisingly good actor :ymdevil:

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#175 Post by barkingmad » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:44 pm

Alas in the case of the 2 MAX accidents the plot was hatched in the Boeing design offices which, coupled with HF failures inflight has led us to where we are today.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#176 Post by barkingmad » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:35 pm

I stumbled across this whilst roving in the web, posted now for discussion purposes;

https://qz.com/1776080/how-the-mcdonnel ... ax-crisis/

More food for thought, reminds me must go cook dinner. :-\

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#177 Post by Boac » Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:36 pm

NYT says that MAX crews will need sim time - amazing!

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#178 Post by Rwy in Sight » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:47 pm

Is that for reason or recency or to learn new tricks? However this might be the first step (or one of the first) towards RTF

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#179 Post by PHXPhlyer » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:04 pm


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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#180 Post by boing » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:21 pm

If the systems are designed to work sensibly the sim. time will be a non-event for the pilots. It is the companies that object to the extra training because it will marginally increase their crew training cost and reduce their flexibility to have all of their pilots qualified on all of their aircraft. The real crunch will come if the FAA decides that the Max must be considered as a new type rather than an updated 737 because that means a full type conversion rather than a quick and dirty differences session..

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