More Boeing Bad News

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Boac
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#241 Post by Boac » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:34 am

Not intentionally, although the DoT would be good reference. What are you using?

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#242 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:54 am

Slasher wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:33 am
Boac can I ask if you are using this (or similar) as a reference?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisagarc ... he-us/amp/

OFSO:
Yes
No

Gob I was replying specifically to ‘del who lives in America and most likely will be flying in American-registered MAXs with American pilots in the cockpit. Not Africans, Strayans, Asians, Arabs nor Trini’s dad and Tobaccos for that matter. And as I inferred to him before neither the airlines nor the FAA will let the MAX loose in US airspace unless the drivers have had the sh!t trained out of ‘em.

Why is it whenever some bugger says something positive about some geographically bound bunch of aviators someone will invariably read it as ‘racist’. I’d expect that nonsense from K&C and Admin but not my experienced fellow pilots who can read a post and the intent of what was written.
I suspect that this "spat" (most enjoyable by the way) is fallout from other sites where the protagonists of their own nationalities are tending to say that they couldn't have been caught out by the MCAS malfunction. :)
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#243 Post by Boac » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:59 am

I suspect that this "spat" (most enjoyable by the way)
:-bd

It may be of interest that the first time I encountered STS on a 737 (a system that I never REALLY understood...) I did spend a few seconds debating whether to action the runaway drill.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#244 Post by Slasher » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:07 am

Gob for info mate go back to my last post. You forget I fiddle and fart-arse with it for 5 mins or so after posting. Usually for better wording and clarity. Sometimes the Preview page can be lost while using certain VPN settings and browsers, and subsequently what I typed disappears like a fart in a breeze. 🙄

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#245 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:27 am

Slasher wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:07 am
Gob for info mate go back to my last post. You forget I fiddle and fart-arse with it for 5 mins or so after posting. Usually for better wording and clarity. Sometimes the Preview page can be lost while using certain VPN settings and browsers, and subsequently what I typed disappears like a fart in a breeze. 🙄
I tend to be a post fiddler as well. Often things don't come out in the order one intended or sometimes not at all and require elucidation etc. ;)))
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#246 Post by Slasher » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:32 am

Post fiddling is more common around here Gob so I’ve noted. I’ll try to wait 5-10 mins before responding to anything.

Also I usually quote to attention-get the OP I’m answering. Some (like me) just make an unquoted reply if it isn’t important the OP sees it. Like this one!

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#247 Post by Pontius Navigator » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:51 am

You gain experience with time. You gain more experience from problems.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#248 Post by Boac » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:26 am

PN - are you on frequency?
in post #238 I wrote: PN wrote:
BOAC, for us SLF, can you summarise for us?

- not clear what you are asking? Summarise what?

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#249 Post by Pontius Navigator » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:00 pm

BOAC, Slasher answered the question adequately. However you referred to the NTSB reports, that was what I was referring to.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#250 Post by Boac » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:10 pm

PN wrote: However you referred to the NTSB reports, that was what I was referring to.
- I 'said' as far as I know there have been none - what more can I summarise? You need to ask Slasher who thinks there are some.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#251 Post by PHXPhlyer » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:44 pm

What's next? ~X(
We find out they are running Windows 7? :))

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/17/business ... index.html

PP

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#252 Post by G-CPTN » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:16 pm

PHXPhlyer wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:44 pm
What's next? ~X(
We find out they are running Windows 7? :))
Nah! - 3.11 more likely . . .

they moved on from CP/M

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#253 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:31 pm

G-CPTN wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:16 pm
PHXPhlyer wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:44 pm
What's next? ~X(
We find out they are running Windows 7? :))
Nah! - 3.11 more likely . . .

they moved on from CP/M
It would probably have been better that they had stuck with CPM and the Zilog 80 Processor. Much easier to debug than these bloody multi core Intel processors and ARM etc. DSP's.
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#254 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:31 am

Well every time I have done transatlantic and the infotainment system has rebooted it was Linux.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#255 Post by ian16th » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:44 pm

Aren't all Boeing's designed using French s/w?
Cynicism improves with age

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#256 Post by ricardian » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:56 pm

Ricardian, Stronsay, Orkney UK
www.stronsaylimpet.co.uk
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https://www.wunderground.com/forecast/EGER

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#257 Post by Boac » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:33 pm

Thanks, Ric. That article casts a little more light on the glitch. It appears to be caused by the needed addition to the system caused by the MCAS cock-up. It has been established that a single source input to MCAS was not acceptable and thus it was necessary to take inputs of AoA from both FCCs before an MCAS reaction would be triggered. From your article it seems that the necessary code to enable this has SNAFUd the whole caboodle. What fun.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#258 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:07 am

Boac wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:33 pm
Thanks, Ric. That article casts a little more light on the glitch. It appears to be caused by the needed addition to the system caused by the MCAS cock-up. It has been established that a single source input to MCAS was not acceptable and thus it was necessary to take inputs of AoA from both FCCs before an MCAS reaction would be triggered. From your article it seems that the necessary code to enable this has SNAFUd the whole caboodle. What fun.
You'd think there would be a 3rd FCC computer input required to break any voting deadlock between the two other computers e.g.

FCC1= 3 degrees FCC2= 3 degrees FCC3= 3 degrees INPUT VALIDATED

FCC1= 3 degrees FCC2= 14 degrees FCC3= 3 degrees INPUT VALIDATED (CAUTION FLAGGED)

FCC1= 3 degrees FCC2= 7 degrees FCC3= 14 degrees INPUT INVALID (MASTER CAUTION ALARM, MCAS DECOUPLED)


and so on...

On top of this you'd expect 3 AoA sensors with exactly the same polling system to facilitate AoA fault checking.
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#259 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:54 am

The fact is that all Boeing's attempts to fix the ongoing MAX 300 problem have been predicated on software solutions when the root cause of the aircraft's problem is a fundamental air-frame fault.

Software won't fix MAX 300's air-frame problem



While it is true that given enough power and a suitable computer flight control system, a brick can be made to fly, that doesn't mean that a brick is a good aircraft. The 737 Max is not a brick but it certainly is a badly flawed aircraft.
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#260 Post by Boac » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:17 am

Sadly, TGG, you need to go on adding 'independent' FCC computers to be 100% safe if you are going to rely on systems, vis the Airbus accident off Perpignan where the two incorrect ones voted out the correct one.

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