More Boeing Bad News

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llondel
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#341 Post by llondel » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:11 pm

Remember that space capsule that failed to dock with the ISS because of a software glitch that burned up all the attitude fuel?

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/02/1 ... y_capsule/
Firstly, that timer wasn't the only software glitch. The Service Module (SM) Disposal Sequence was incorrectly translated into the SM Integrated Propulsion Controller (IPC). The result was that rather than performing a burn to dispose of the SM prior to re-entry, the bug could have actually sent the SM bouncing off the Crew Module.

Fortunately, the team noticed that second error while reviewing the code following the first, and uploaded the fix prior to landing.
So it was flying with what could have been a fatal bug in the software.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#342 Post by PHXPhlyer » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:44 pm

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ameri ... 2020-02-14

American Airlines joins other U.S. airlines in extending 737 Max flights halt
Published: Feb 14, 2020 5:01 p.m. ET

1
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By

CLAUDIA
ASSIS
REPORTER

American Airlines Group Inc. AAL, -2.96% said Friday it expects to fly its Boeing Co.'s BA, -0.68% 737 Max aircraft on Aug. 18, joining United Airlines Holdings Inc. UAL, -1.78% and Southwest Airlines Co. LUV, -0.97% in forecasting a late summer return for the grounded aircraft. American Airlines had previously canceled 737 Max flights through June. Boeing's 737 Max jets have been grounded worldwide since March after two deadly crashes less than five months apart. A return-to-service for the Max has been dragging, and Boeing said in January it expects the aircraft to return to the skies starting mid-year.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#343 Post by Boac » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:50 pm

Little battle going on as well between B and the FAA who think B should re-route the cable looms to avoid
"short circuits" but B say no.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#344 Post by G-CPTN » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:24 pm

Boac wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:50 pm
Little battle going on as well between B and the FAA who think B should re-route the cable looms to avoid
"short circuits" but B say no.
Well, there haven't been any incidents during the last 11 months :o)

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#345 Post by Boac » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:47 pm

Not that YOU know about!

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#346 Post by PHXPhlyer » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:34 pm

Boeing's got bigger problems than the 737 Max
Chris Isidore bylineNew York (CNN Business)
Fixing the 737 Max and getting it back in the air is crucial for Boeing. But it's not the only major challenge facing the embattled aircraft maker. Boeing also needs to focus on its next generation of passenger planes.

The aircraft maker has made its focus clear as it works on getting the 737 Max approved to fly again, which is expected to happen by the middle of this year. The plane has been grounded since March, following two fatal crashes that killed 346 people. The nearly year-long crisis has put orders and deliveries of many of the company's jets on hold.
Tuesday, Boeing reported that it didn't receive any new orders for commercial jets in January, compared to 45 orders a year ago. And it only delivered 13 commercial planes in the month, down from 46 a year earlier.
The 737 Max crisis has stymied Boeing's growth. But Boeing (BA) faces a longer-term threat that is even more important to overcome: Boeing is falling behind rival Airbus and needs to build the next generation of planes to remain competitive in the future.
The 777X
The 777X widebody plane has already been developed and is going through its first round of test flights. But its official debut has been pushed back because of problems with its engine from General Electric (GE).
At the time of the Max crisis, Boeing was planning on delivering the 777X at some point this year. But in October, it pushed back the first delivery date to early 2021.
Boeing has 309 orders of the 777X that are now being delayed.
The new plane
Boeing is positioning its new airplane for the middle market, slotting in between the 737 Max and long-range wide bodies like the 777X and the 787 Dreamliner. The plane would probably carry about 250 passengers and travel nearly 5,000 miles. The segment would serve airlines who want a larger plane that can carry more passengers and travel farther than current single-aisle jets.
Boeing has already fallen behind rival Airbus in that part of the market. Last June, Airbus started taking orders for the A321neo XLR, its middle-market jet that is set to be in service in 2023.
Boeing coming up with a middle-market jet of its own is "the most important thing I would say," said Richard Aboulafia, aerospace analyst with the Teal Group. "Airlines want a larger, single aisle jet for international routes, and some regional routes as well."
Boeing has been talking for years about developing what it called the NMA for New Middle-Market Airplane. It was popularly being referred to in the industry as the 797, given Boeing's plane nomenclature. Boeing had been signaling it would serve that part of the market with a new widebody jet. But last month new CEO David Calhoun announced that the company is going back to the drawing board on the plane's design.
"We're going to start with a clean sheet of paper again," he said.
That was seen as an indication that the plane would ultimately be a longer single-aisle jet, like the Airbus offering.
"It was long overdue for a reexamination," said Aboulafia. "There's been a shift away from twin aisles and towards single-aisle jets. What was a 50-50 split has become two thirds-one third split."
Falling behind Airbus
But Boeing already has fallen behind Airbus. The market for a mid-range aircraft is probably somewhere been 2,500 and 4,000 planes. Airbus has already taken orders for the A321neo-XLR to serve that market. But once airlines pick a plane in a segment of the market, they rarely buy a rival's plane in the same segment.
"Their competitor already has something," said Ron Epstein, aerospace analyst for Bank of America-Merrill Lynch. "Is it too late [for Boeing] already? It could be. It's hard to say for sure."
While Boeing said it was continuing to work on the new plane during the Max crisis, it was clear that the diversion of resources and and attention to fixing the Max delayed its debut. Calhoun promised it would move quickly on the new plane's design. And he insisted the decision to scrap the old plans and start again was more market related than Max related.
"If we were not having trouble with the Max, I would have made the [same] decision on the NMA," he said on a recent press call.
A replacement for the 737 Max
After it addresses the middle market, Boeing will have to turn attention once again to the part of the market now served by the 737 Max. That's because the need to come up with an replacement for the 737 is on the horizon.
It's tough to tell how soon it will need a 737 replacement. Experts say Boeing might not start taking orders for a 737 Max successor for another 10 years.
Will passengers be willing to fly on the Boeing 737 Max?
Will passengers be willing to fly on the Boeing 737 Max?
But the need to come up with a successor could be sooner than that.
If the fixes for the 737 Max aren't enough to make passengers comfortable with flying Boeing's best-selling jet, Boeing could have to act sooner. Boeing executives and many airlines say they believe passengers will be willing to fly the Max once it is cleared to fly again. But nobody knows for sure.
It has orders for about 4,000 737 Max jets that it has yet to build. So no matter passengers' initial reactions, it will probably continue to build it for years.
But it will also needs new orders at some point to justify the program. So far it has only firm orders for 32 of the planes in the 11 months since the grounding, although International Airlines Group, the owner of Aer Lingus, British Airways, Iberia and other European carriers, signed a letter of intent to buy 200 of the Max jets at the Paris Air Show last June.
The first 737 was delivered more than 50 years ago in 1967. The Max is just the latest version, as it debuted in 2016. Even without the current crisis, experts say it was a model that needed a complete redesign.
"The 737 has reached the end of its line with the Max," said Aboulafia. "It made sense as a last of its kind. There's no way you can get a fifth version out of the plane."

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#347 Post by barkingmad » Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:22 pm

"We're going to start with a clean sheet of paper again," he said. Why didn't they rehash the 757, widely acclaimed by drivers and management, or have I missed something? Apart from the common cockpit, therefore less training yield from a stretch too far of the 73', there might have been a case to improve on the 75' family?

Does that mean there'll be grumpy old engineers, both ground and flight variety and aircrew sitting at the front of the classroom vetoing to daft ideas?

If so I'd like to bag a slot as I'm fairly well-qualified in terms of cynicism and a long term memory of accident reports spanning over 4 decades.

But Seattle is a miserable Maritime airmass location so can we have somewhere nice and sunny please?

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#348 Post by boing » Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:19 pm

BM,

Slide down to Portland, still rains but we have great beer and there are worse things than being stuck in a good bar by weather.

Agreed on the '57, nice aircraft and the specs. being bought out for the new Boeing aircraft get ever closer to a longer range '57. The '57 already has the required pax. load. Interestingly the stretched DC8 would have met the new aircraft specs. apart from horrific fuel burn. I really liked travelling First on the DC8.

As you probably know the 757 and 767 were considered a common type for the pilots. The 757 was probably closer to a stretched 737 than the 767. I never really liked the 767, it was a characterless aircraft.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#349 Post by barkingmad » Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:37 pm

boing, thanks for your support, I sometimes wonder if I'm going mad. Aaw, wait a minute, I've just noticed.....

I don't suppose Mr Boeing is advertising for grumpy old farts to join the design team-from your age you would appear to be eligible too?

As an aside, even being bigger, heavier than the 73NG, I understand the 757 was slower on the approach, didn't have an enviable record of overruns and could stop quicker thanks to more rubber on the tarmac/concrete. It just needed a sensible update, unlike most Windows MS offerings!

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#350 Post by boing » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:08 pm



Too busy to waste my time with Boeing until they get a team together I can expect to produce results, until then I have a couple of businesses to run. Unlike Boeing we are making money. :))
the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#351 Post by PHXPhlyer » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:28 pm

https://leehamnews.com/2020/02/18/boein ... more-32624

Boeing finds debris left in new 737 MAXes, now in storage
DOWNLOAD
By Scott Hamilton

Exclusive

Feb. 18, 2020, © Leeham News: Boeing recently discovered some of its stored 737 MAXes have foreign objects in the fuel tanks.

The entire fleet of 400+ newly produced but undelivered MAXes is being inspected.

Foreign objects, called foreign object debris (FOD) in aviation parlance, consist of tools or rags. FOD has been found in the fuel tanks of some MAXes, stored at three locations in Washington State and in San Antonio (TX).

It’s unlikely that the FOD inspections will delay recertification or testing of the MAX.


FAA informed
The FAA was informed by Boeing.

It takes up to three days to inspect each airplane, LNA is told. Fuel must be drained and vapors dissipated before the fuel tanks can be opened.

It’s unclear what other areas of the airplane must be inspected.

Reuters last week reported that the certification flights for the MAX may not happen until “April or later.” Boeing hoped to stage the certification flight this month or next. Boeing would not confirm this timeline today to LNA, saying only that the flights will happen “soon.”

Quality Control issues
The FOD in the MAXes are unrelated to the technical issues that grounded the airplane for almost a year. As such, no connection to the MAX’s grounding, accidents or investigations should be made other than it’s just one more issue discovered that now must be rectified.

FOD in the airplanes is a quality control issue on the assembly line. QC is a problem that exists on other airplane programs at Boeing.

The US Air Force halted deliveries of the KC-46A tanker twice because FOD was discovered on the newly produced airplanes at the Everett (WA) wide-body factory. FOD issues on the 787s produced at the Charleston (SC) factory were detailed last year in a report by the Charleston Post and Courier.

The MAX is produced at the Renton (WA) factory.

There are strict protocols to avoid FOD in the final assembly process. Boeing is investigating to determine how the FOD into the MAX occurred.

Boeing’s message to employees
Mark Jenks, the VP and GM of the 737 Program, sent this message to employees today:

Team,

During these challenging times, our customers and the flying public are counting on us to do our best work each and every day. That’s why we’re taking action after a range of Foreign Object Debris (FOD) was recently found in the fuel tanks of several 737 MAX airplanes in storage.

FOD is absolutely unacceptable. One escape is one too many. With your help and focus, we will eliminate FOD from our production system.

We’ve already held a series of stand down meetings in Renton with teammates on the factory floor to share a new process for stopping FOD. This process includes:

Updated instructions and required checklists for teammates working in the fuel cell areas.
Additional verifications including inspections, audits and checks into our tank closure process to ensure there is zero FOD within the fuel tanks.
New signage added in these work areas to help remind teammates of the appropriate steps to take.
The success of this initiative is dependent on you. We need our entire team to make this a priority. Thank you for your commitment to put safety, quality and integrity into everything we do.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#352 Post by boing » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:34 am

We’ve already held a series of stand down meetings in Renton with teammates on the factory floor to share a new process for stopping FOD.
When they start talking about stand downs, teammates, factory floors and sharing and "new" processes you know that they have lost the plot. The ultimate question that they will not ask, of course, is why didn't we have these type of FO's in the past.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#353 Post by ian16th » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:03 pm

Cynicism improves with age

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#354 Post by Alisoncc » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:33 pm

In my days as a LAME leaving FOD in an aircraft would lead to loss of licence, and livelihood. Licences that may have taken years to acquire. Being accused of such was the stuff of nightmares. Final inspection before closing up necessitating check of all control runs in particular, count of tools taken out to aircraft and brought back, everything down to pop rivet heads. Never ever introduce unaccountedable foreign objects in the first instance.
Rev Mother Bene Gesserit.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#355 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:27 pm

As a good honest technician once said to me "Mr Goblin, nobody has any proud in their work any more"... English wasn't his first language and he was right!
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#356 Post by barkingmad » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:29 am

Does Mr Boeing have ‘shadow boards’ and a disc system in their premises or if one works there do they just bring in their own selection of Snapon tools except for the specialist kit?

As for the rags maybe an operating theatre system of counting the swabs in then counting them out after use might help alleviate this problem?

But modern thrusting dynamic team mate culture probably has no room for such innovation, outside the box, blue-sky thinking, pushing the envelope.......(Continues in this vein until the men in white coats arrive to remove the loony)

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#357 Post by Rwy in Sight » Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:04 am

Keep sending posts like this and we are going to merge it with the company's speak

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#358 Post by Boac » Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:34 pm

The Max conducted its first 'taxi' runs yesterday in Renton. There has been no confirmation of whether MCAS triggered..........

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#359 Post by Pontius Navigator » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:41 pm

With airlines cancelling hundreds of flights and consolidation everywhere I bet airlines are in no hurry to collect their aircraft.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#360 Post by Boac » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:04 pm

Why is the 737MAX storage area like a cage of budgies?

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