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More Boeing Bad News

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#781 Post by PHXPhlyer » Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:28 pm

Boeing ordered to face arraignment on felony charge in 737 Max jet crashes

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boeing-arr ... t-crashes/

A federal judge has ordered Boeing Co. to be arraigned on a felony charge stemming from crashes of two 737 Max jets, a ruling that threatens to unravel an agreement Boeing negotiated to avoid prosecution. The two crashes, which occurred in 2018 and 2019, killed 346 people.

The ruling by a judge in Texas came after relatives of some of the victims said the government violated their rights by reaching a settlement with Boeing without first notifying the families.

U.S. District Court Judge Reed O'Connor ordered Boeing to send a representative to his courtroom in Fort Worth Jan. 26 for arraignment.

O'Connor ruled last year that relatives of those killed in the crashes are crime victims under federal law and should have been consulted before the Justice Department agreed to a deal under which Boeing paid $2.5 billion to avoid prosecution on a criminal count of defrauding federal regulators who approved the 737 Max.

"We are pleased that the court has agreed with our request for an arraignment, and rejected arguments from Boeing and the U.S. Justice Department," attorney Paul G. Cassell, who is representing families of some of the victims, said in a statement to CBS News Thursday.

Most of the money from the settlement went to airlines that couldn't use their Max jets for nearly two years after the planes were grounded worldwide. Boeing agreed to pay a $243.6 million fine and create a $500 million fund to compensate victims' families.

Last September, Boeing also paid $200 million to settle charges from the Securities and Exchange Commission over allegations it misled the public and investors by claiming the plane was safe despite knowing that a flight-control system posed a safety risk.

On Oct. 18, 2018, Lion Air Flight 610 crashed into the ocean off West Java, Indonesia, shortly after takeoff. All 189 people aboard died.

About five months later, on March 10, 2019, Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 crashed, also just after takeoff, near Addis Ababa, killing all 157 people aboard.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#782 Post by Woody » Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:01 pm

Even the BBC are still following this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64390546
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#783 Post by PHXPhlyer » Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:03 pm

Boeing is cutting 2,000 HR and finance jobs, outsourcing some to India

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/07/business ... index.html

Boeing plans to cut about 2,000 white-collar jobs in finance and human resources, and it will be shifting some of that work to an outside contractor in India.

Although Boeing will reduce office staff, the company is preparing to add 10,000 employees focused on engineering and manufacturing.

The company said that job cuts will be accomplished through a combination of attrition and layoffs. Boeing said that the employees who will be laid off have yet to be notified. Some of work conducted by the staff being let go will be contracted out to Tata Consulting Services in Bengaluru, India, while other work will be eliminated through streamlining and simplifying processes.

“We have and will continue to communicate transparently with our teams that we expect lower staffing within some corporate support functions so that we can focus our resources in engineering and manufacturing and directly supporting our products, services and technology development efforts,” said the company in a statement. “As always, we will support affected teammates and provide assistance and resources to support their transition.”

Boeing announced several rounds of job cuts that reduced staffing by 20,000 employees to 141,000 during 2020 as the pandemic caused demand for aircraft to fall sharply. Many customers canceled orders for planes, most notably the 737 Max, which remained grounded for most of the year following fatal crashes in late 2018 and early 2019.

Here's what Boeing blames for its big loss
But Boeing grew its workforce by 15,000 last year, bringing employment back to 156,000. And it said it plans to hire another 10,000 engineering and manufacturing employees this year.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#784 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:49 pm

An Indian Express report quoted an IIT-Bombay professor as saying that cheating is 'rampant' and done by 'almost 95 percent students'.
..and IIT is one of the most respected Indian universities.

https://www.dnaindia.com/education/repo ... ce-2859164

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#785 Post by Woody » Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:49 pm

Even airlines that have gone bust are sueing Boeing :-o

https://www.news24.com/fin24/companies/ ... n-20230210
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#786 Post by PHXPhlyer » Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:19 pm

Brand new Boeing 747 scrapped after 16 flights

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/boei ... index.html

https://srammram.com/wp-content/uploads ... 7-8JA1.pdf

A Boeing 747 configured as a private VIP jet is being scrapped after having spent just 30 hours in service over 16 flights.

The aircraft, originally intended for a Saudi royal, sat on the ground for almost 10 years at EuroAirport Basel Mulhouse Freiburg, located at the border between France, Switzerland and Germany.

There, it was meant to be fitted with a lavish interior, but that never happened, and after failing to find a new buyer, the plane was eventually flown to Pinal Airpark in Arizona – an aircraft boneyard where retired planes get stripped for parts or stored indefinitely.

Fit for a royal
The plane is a BBJ, for “Boeing Business Jet” – heavily modified editions of Boeing’s jetliners targeted to governments and corporate clients. Its range of over 10,000 miles and cabin space of about 5,000 square feet are unrivaled by any other business aircraft.

It’s also the most advanced model of the Boeing 747 ever produced – the 747-8 variant – which first flew in 2010 but failed to find commercial success due to being expensive to operate. The final one, delivered to cargo operator Atlas Air in early 2023, marked the end of the 747’s production history, though the variant still has a future in the spotlight: two 747-8s are currently being transformed into the next Air Force One planes.

Boeing has sold over 250 BBJs to date, the vast majority of them 737s, which have a broader market appeal. The large, expensive, four-engined BBJ 747-8 was a harder sell: “Ten were built in total, and this is the first one retired,” says Connor Diver, a senior analyst at aviation analytics firm Cirium. “It’s not transparent who exactly is buying them, but it’s a very, very large private aircraft and the only operators or buyers tend to be governments and royal families.”

This particular one was intended for the Saudi Arabian government, and specifically for the Crown Prince Sultan bin Abdulaziz Al-Saud, but he died in 2011, just months before the scheduled delivery. The plane, which was assigned a mandatory registration code – N458BJ – first flew in May 2012 for testing, and was officially delivered in June 2012.

“According to our database, it flew via possibly San Bernardino and then San Antonio in Texas for a couple of months, and then in December of 2012 it went to Basel,” says Diver.

Typically, large business jets are delivered in what’s called a “green” condition – from the color of the protective coating of the fuselage – which means they are empty inside and the interior needs to be installed.

“I’m guessing that’s the reason it went there initially, to be fitted out,” says Diver. “Of course, that never happened. And it looks like it sat there for 10 years.”

Last flight of this white jumbo before its retirement B747-8JA | N458BJ | take off at Basel Airport.Video Last flight of this white jumbo before its retirement B747-8JA | N458BJ | take off at Basel Airport.

No buyers
In 2017, orphaned from its original purpose, the plane went up for sale for $95 million – down from an original list price of around $350 million, according to Diver. It was still empty and advertised as “ready for conversion” in a brochure that can still be found online. But it never sold.

“No one apart from a Saudi head of state is going to want a private, four-engine business jet,” says Richard Aboulafia, an aviation analyst at AeroDynamic Advisory. “You can’t convert just one aircraft to cargo, and nobody wants a passenger version. As a consequence, the parts and especially the engines, are worth far more than the airplane.”

One major hurdle to a sale was the high cost of fitting the interior.

“Fitting one of these out would cost 30, 40 maybe 50 million dollars,” says Diver, “Although you might think it’s a brand new aircraft, the alternate uses for it are rather limited. The commercial passenger variant had a limited production and very few airlines operated it, and they would not be interested in taking any more. So the only other option was potentially another government, but obviously that didn’t happen.”

Boeing, which declined to answer a series of questions about the plane when contacted by CNN, eventually bought it back in 2022, from an aircraft trading company called Aircraft Finance Germany. The plane flew to Arizona on April 15, 2022, adding 10 more hours to its time in the air, representing about a quarter of its total flying time. Its very last takeoff from Basel, was immortalized on YouTube by planespotters.

Scrap value
At Pinal Airpark, a Boeing contractor is still working on disassembling the plane, which has been stripped of the most valuable parts. “I’ve seen pictures of it and it’s been dismantled already, the engines have already been removed,” says Diver. “They were effectively brand new, and one of them is probably in the region of $20 million, so four would be in the region of $80 million.”

Major systems like the auxiliary power unit and some of the environmental control systems would also have been among the first to go, according to Aboulafia.

“Total production of the 747-8 is about 150 aircraft,” he adds. “It’s a small group of users and a small number of aircraft. But on the other hand, they’re going to want to keep those going. I suspect a lot of the components will probably go to the cargo folks.”

It’s unclear whether the plane will be scrapped entirely or put in storage to be harvested for parts later. “What can happen in these cases is that it will sit there until a certain part is needed. They might not necessarily take it all the way down to scrap, and leave it for a few years until somebody wants a specific part,” says Diver.

Nine other BBJ 747s are still being operated by the governments of Egypt, Kuwait, Morocco, Oman, Qatar and Turkey, according to Diver. With the lifespan of a 747 usually clocking in at 25 to 30 years, this one being retired at just 10 years of age is going to set a record that will be difficult to beat.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#787 Post by PHXPhlyer » Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:23 pm

Boeing lands massive Air India order, but still loses out to Airbus

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/14/business ... index.html

Boeing announced one of the largest orders in its history Tuesday. But it was still topped by rival Airbus.

Both aircraft makers announced massive orders from Air India, which is gearing up its own expansion plans.

Boeing’s order, which was announced by President Joe Biden after a call with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, was for 220 firm jet orders: 190 of Boeing 737 Max single-aisle planes, 20 of 787 Dreamliners widebodies and 10 of 777X, the newest version of its widebody now undergoing the certification process.

It’s the third biggest sale of all time for Boeing.

But Airbus announced orders for 250 jets, including 140 A320neo and 70 A321neo single-aisle planes, along with 34 A350-1000 and six A350-900 widebodies.

It’s a sign of the competitive disadvantage that Boeing still finds itself facing, especially in selling narrow-body, single-aisle jets, a segment of the market that Airbus continues to dominate.

Boeing has been narrowing the gap with Airbus in orders, helped especially by an even larger order from United late last year. For all of 2022, Boeing announced a total of 808 net commercial aircraft orders, up from 535 a year earlier. But Airbus edged it out with 820 orders.

Boeing has had a particularly hard couple of years. It experienced a 20-month grounding of its best-selling 737 Max following two fatal crashes, with rising trade tensions between China and the United States leading to a virtual halt in sales to China, the world’s largest market for plane sales, and of course the pandemic.

But even in 2018, when Boeing reported record sales revenue, it trailed Airbus by about 200 net jet orders for the year.

Outlook for aircraft orders improving
The good news for Boeing is that aircraft manufacturing is essentially split between the two companies, and there’s a long backlog of orders at both. Boeing had a backlog of nearly 4,600 jets on its books at the end of January.

And as the Air India order demonstrates, global airlines are starting to gear up to make new purchases as they climb out of years of losses caused by the plunge in demand during the pandemic.

Global air traffic is expected to boom this year, returning to pre-pandemic levels in June, according to a new report from aircraft leasing company Avolon.

And the global airline industry is expected to return to profitability this year for the first time since 2019, according to the International Air Transport Association. The US industry already returned to profitability in 2022.

Boeing’s Air India order was valued at a list price of $34 billion. Airbus no longer publishes a list price for its aircraft, but its most recent list price from 2018 would have valued its Air India order at nearly $38 billion.

Airlines do not pay full list prices for commercial jets, especially when placing an order this large. But even at a discount of 50%, which is not unusual, Boeing’s Air India order would mean a sale valued at $17 billion.

That’s an important lift to a company still struggling to recover from the plunge in revenue and financial losses it suffered over the last four years.

Boeing’s 2022 revenue came in at $66.6 billion, up $8 billion from the trough in sales in 2020, but far lower than its record 2018 revenue of $101 billion before the grounding. Boeing gets most of its sales revenue once a plane is delivered, and the 777X has yet to be built. The planes in this order are years away from delivery.

The Air India purchase also includes an option that allows it to buy an additional 50 Boeing 737 Max’s and 20 Boeing 787s, totaling 290 airplanes. At list price, that order would be valued at $45.9 billion.

Biden touts order
In a statement, Biden said the sale would “support over one million American jobs across 44 states, and many will not require a four-year college degree.”

“This announcement also reflects the strength of the U.S.-India economic partnership,” Biden wrote. “Together with Prime Minister Modi, I look forward to deepening our partnership even further as we continue to confront shared global challenges — creating a more secure and prosperous future for all of our citizens.”

Production will support three separate U.S.-based manufacturing lines, have a total economic impact of $70 billion across the United States and support an estimated 1.47 million direct and indirect jobs, a White House official said Tuesday.

India’s growing economic might
India has been gaining some manufacturing business as Western tensions flare with China, including major companies that traditionally rely heavily on Chinese production. Apple is one such company, with Minister of Commerce and Industry Piyush Goyal saying the tech giant was already making between 5% and 7% of its products in India.

India is set to overtake China this year to become the world’s most populous country. The country’s massive and cheap labor force, which includes workers with key technical skills, is a big draw for manufacturers. Asia’s third-largest economy also offers a growing domestic market. In 2023, as global recession fears persist, India is expected to remain the fastest growing major economy in the world.

If it can sustain that momentum, India could become only the third country with GDP worth $10 trillion by 2035, according to the Centre for Economics and Business Research, after the US and China.

Boeing woes
Boeing’s (BA) 737 Max has been plagued with problems, but production and orders for the troubled aircraft has picked up, boosted by an even larger order from United late last year. In June, Ethiopian Airlines took delivery of a 737 Max from Boeing for the first time since the March 2019 crash that killed all 157 people on board, and led to a 20-month grounding of the jet.

The company has plenty of other troubles in China, the world’s largest aviation market. It has been on the verge of being virtually shut out of the region as trade tensions between the United States and China have basically halted Boeing sales in the country for the last four years.

The company has not announced any sales to a Chinese passenger airline since November 2017, and the country banned the Boeing 737 Max for much longer than most countries. In January, a Boeing 737 Max took off in China for the first time since 2019.

Boeing has faced myriad problems in recent years, beyond the drop in demand for passenger planes that occurred during the pandemic. Delivery of the 787 Dreamliner widebody jets resumed last year after they were halted due to quality control issues.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#788 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:44 pm

Boeing has faced myriad problems in recent years
Boeing has only one problem, of their own making.
They put short term profit over everything else, including passenger safety, the law, and reputation for engineering standards.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#789 Post by PHXPhlyer » Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:31 pm

Boeing forced to halt 787 Dreamliner deliveries once again

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/24/business ... index.html

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CNN Business

Boeing has been forced to halt deliveries of the 787 Dreamliner once again, just months after it resumed deliveries to customers following a year-long halt.

Boeing will have to conduct additional analysis of the fuselage in order to address new concerns of the Federal Aviation Administration, according to statements from the regulator and the company.

“In reviewing certification records, Boeing discovered an analysis error by our supplier related to the 787 forward pressure bulkhead,” said the company, referring to the portion of a plane at its nose that maintains the pressurized conditions in the cabin. “We notified the FAA and have paused 787 deliveries while we complete the required analysis and documentation.”

“Deliveries will not resume until the FAA is satisfied that the issue has been addressed,” said the agency. “The FAA is working with Boeing to determine any actions that might be required for recently delivered airplanes.”

While the 787 Dreamliners have not been grounded, the FAA had ordered a halt to deliveries of the widebody jet between May of 2021 and July of 2022 as it looked into questions about quality control during its assembly process.

Boeing continued to build the 787 even while it was prevented from making deliveries in late 2021 and much of 2022. It was able to deliver much of that backlog once it was given clearance to resume deliveries, as it delivered 34 Dreamliners between August of last year and January of this year.

Boeing plans to maintain assembly of the planes once again during this current delivery halt.

“There is no immediate safety of flight concern for the in-service fleet,” Boeing’s statement said. “Production continues and this is not expected to increase airplane rework. We are communicating with our customers and will continue to follow the lead of the FAA. While near-term deliveries will be impacted, at this time we do not anticipate a change to our production and delivery outlook for the year.”

But a halt of deliveries is another financial blow to the already struggling Boeing, which gets most of its money from its airline customers at the time that planes are delivered.

Boeing, which had its best selling plane, the 737 Max, grounded for 20 months from March of 2019 through November of 2021 following two fatal crashes, has reported deep financial losses totaling $26.3 billion over the course of the last four years.

Shares of Boeing (BA), which had been up 9% so far this year through Thursday’s close and up more than 30% since it got clearance from the FAA to resume 787 deliveries in late July, lost 4% in morning trading Friday on the latest news.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#790 Post by llondel » Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:49 pm

On the plus side, at least they raised the issue in advance, before it was forced on them by external events.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#791 Post by PHXPhlyer » Sat Feb 25, 2023 3:43 pm

Dreamliner Lightning Strikes Damage
Lightning Strike Forcibly Separates Fuselage Of American Airlines 787


https://viewfromthewing.com/lightning-s ... lines-787/
See article for photos.

Photos of damage to the fuselage of an American Airlines Boeing 787-9, registration N839AA, caused by a lightning strike, are spreading through social media. The incident occurred on Monday’s Tokyo Narita to Dallas – Fort Worth flight.

The plane, originally delivered in October 2018, has been on the ground in Dallas since the – and should remain there for some time as work is done on the aircraft.


Aviation watchdog JonNYC describes the work that is expected to be done to the aircraft to restore it to operational condition.


Jon also notes that “the 787 has a known issue with” lightning strikes. While on average it’s said that every commercial plane is struck by lightning at least once a year, I believe it’s been over 40 years since a crash has been attributed to a lightning strike. The fuselage of a plane will conduct electricity and allow it to trasmit from the strike and generally out the tail.

However Boeing actually reduced lightning protection in the wings of 787s in order to reduce costs and speed deliveries. They maintain that safety has not been compromised.

Here’s video from an Australian domestic Boeing 787 flight’s lightning strike.


And photos from a past American Airlines Boeing 787 lightning strike:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cok565rWEAI ... name=small

Deliveries of new Boeing 787s were halted this week for analysis of an issue with the fuselage. Deliveries of the aircraft were last paused from May 2021 through August 2022.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#792 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sat Feb 25, 2023 3:54 pm

Damage looks pretty typical for a lightning strike - I've had two!

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#793 Post by Wodrick » Sat Feb 25, 2023 4:25 pm

In a Tornado I suppose, what they made of ?

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#794 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sat Feb 25, 2023 4:42 pm

Yep, mostly aluminium with some fibreglass (e.g. radome).
Main problems were the blinding flash, and the autopilot tripping out.
An old-timer gave me some tips, so I was ready the second time.
The 'in' hole tends to be a rip-type opening, and a smaller, simple scorched hole for the 'out' (can be several, but only one in my cases).
Any rain getting in through the holes can cause further electrical problems, but the basic structure of the jet stays sound.
So, whatever the 787's possible likelihood of a strike, the damage does not look unusually severe to me.

The only Tornado lost to lightning was a GR1 where the exit hole was from an underwing tank, which caught fire. The crew failed to jettison the tank due to a switch-pigs, and wisely banged out after 30 seconds with the flames increasing.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#795 Post by PHXPhlyer » Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:17 pm

From the article above:

Jon also notes that “the 787 has a known issue with” lightning strikes. While on average it’s said that every commercial plane is struck by lightning at least once a year, I believe it’s been over 40 years since a crash has been attributed to a lightning strike. The fuselage of a plane will conduct electricity and allow it to trasmit from the strike and generally out the tail.

However Boeing actually reduced lightning protection in the wings of 787s in order to reduce costs and speed deliveries. They maintain that safety has not been compromised.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#796 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:53 pm

Yup, I read all that.
I would like to see some statistical evidence of "a known issue". I have come across several "oh, they all do that"s which turned out to have no general basis. They just turned out to have been true for some operator at some particular time, often early in an aircraft's life, and rumour control did the rest. I've also seen the opposite, where problems were not reported formally because they were thought to be either commonplace or unimportant - Tornado F3 nosewheel steering for one.

On the other hand, I note that Boeing are providing ample evidence that the temptation to use delegated design authority to save costs may be too great.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#797 Post by llondel » Sun Feb 26, 2023 3:34 am

I was always unconvinced by the composite fuselage when it came to lightning, although it appears to have held up better than I expected. I've only flown a 787 twice, to Shanghai and back, and I'm not in a hurry to do it again.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#798 Post by Woody » Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:57 am

Flew on an Airbus A350 for the first time earlier this month, are they having similar problems with lightning strikes?
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#799 Post by tango15 » Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:18 am

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:44 pm
Boeing has faced myriad problems in recent years
Boeing has only one problem, of their own making.
They put short term profit over everything else, including passenger safety, the law, and reputation for engineering standards.
+1, thus hastening the demise of what was once a well-respected company.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#800 Post by PHXPhlyer » Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:03 pm

Two 10-year-old Boeing 787 Dreamliners are already being scrapped

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/10-y ... index.html

CNN

If you’re in the market for a pair of lightly used widebody aircraft, you better head to Scotland fast and put in an offer — before two Boeing 787-8s formerly flying for Norwegian Air Shuttle get stripped for parts.

Both planes are under 10 years old, as they were delivered in June and August 2013. Except for a testbed scrapped by Boeing in 2018, these are the first Dreamliners to be retired, and their disassembly, which began in early March, is taking place at Prestwick Airport near Glasgow, Scotland.

“They’re being done side by side and it could take probably three to four months,” says Ken Fitzgibbon, CEO of EirTrade, the Dublin-based aviation trading company that is managing the operation. “The dismantling process resembles a production line, but it’s reverse engineered, and in the end we aim to recycle about 95% of the aircraft.”

EirTrade has previous experience in scrapping young widebody aircraft, having worked on retired A380s from Singapore Airlines and Air France that were also about a decade old.

“The 787 is a very new aircraft and it’s probably hard for people outside of aviation to get their head around this,” says Lee Carey, VP of asset management at Eirtrade, who points to upkeep costs as one of the reasons the planes are being cut up. “They were coming up to their 12-year check, the heaviest maintenance event that’s going to happen on these aircraft.”

As many other 787s that are still flying are also coming up to this landmark maintenance event, demand for parts will spike, making the operation economically viable.

“These particular aircraft already had the engines removed a couple of weeks ago,” says Carey. “We then commenced the defueling operation to ensure that any hazardous fuels were removed and disposed of correctly.”

After that, the aircraft were pulled into a hangar for disassembly. The disassembly team has a “harvest list” of material they want — essentially where most of the value is. As components are removed, they are sent for repairs or overhaul, to get them back into shape: “After that, they will go on to be sold to airlines, maintenance companies, equipment manufacturers or aircraft leasing companies around the world to support the rest of the global 787 fleet.”

The planes arrived at their current location at Prestwick Airport in Scotland for storage back in the summer of 2019, after having flown transatlantic routes for Norwegian, via leasing companies, for about six years. They were part of a group of 35 Boeing 787s that were grounded because of problems with their engine blades, which were cracking or corroding prematurely.

But even after a solution was found, the planes never entered service again, and then became engulfed in the pandemic.

In 2020, Norwegian was struggling to survive and filed for bankruptcy. The longer the 787s remained on the ground, the more it would cost to get them to fly again, due to the maintenance work required. As a result, they were no longer airworthy.

“Prestwick is a really terrible place to store an airplane, because it’s cold and wet and rainy and moist,” says Connor Diver, a senior analyst at aviation analytics firm Cirium. “Not somewhere you would plan to keep them for a long time. Maybe they were just planning to fix them, but then the other events happened.”

The condition of the aircraft likely played a big role in the fact that no airline came forward to buy them.

“The maintenance on a modern widebody is very, very expensive,” Diver adds. “If you’re behind and in bad condition, the costs to bring these up to a serviceable state would be prohibitive, most likely. The value of the parts then may be more than the value of the aircraft.”

The average value of a similarly aged Boeing 787-8 is around $30 million, but because of the condition they were in, these two aircraft would have been worth less and probably closer to $20 million, according to Diver. Scrapping them for parts and starting a second-hand components market for the 787 therefore became a more appealing option.

How to recycle the world's largest passenger plane
Earlier this year, a 10-year-old Boeing 747 in VIP configuration was scrapped with just 16 flights on the clock after failing to find a buyer. Several Airbus A380s of similar age have already been recycled. Now, the 787s have entered the circus: is this the start of a worrying trend of young widebody aircraft being retired too soon?

“Never say never, but it could be an isolated incident,” says Diver. “Typically we would expect an airliner to stay in service for 20 to 25 years at least.”

“If they were in good condition and had not sat there for three years, it’s very likely somebody would have wanted them.”

PP

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