More Boeing Bad News

[TheGreenAnger]

If its Boeing I ain't going?

If it ain't Boein' I aint goin' Still have my flight briefcase with the large red sticker "Boeing my way ? "

Prefer them to the Scairbus.

Tis true that Boeing have produced some excellent, if not iconic, aircraft over the years, and that in a sense, this is what makes this recent very chequered history, all the more difficult for the company to recover from.

I must admit that in the case of the Boeing 737 Max, I believe that the type's design is still is intrinsically flawed in that Boeing stretched the iconic 737 concept, one too many times with the concomitant need for much bigger engines that literally, don't easily fit into the original 737 design paradigm. While the kludges, both aerodynamic and software that they have had to make, albeit now with better redundancy, publicity and pilot training, after the disasters and scandal, make the aircraft airworthy and flyable, they don't address the underlying flaw in the design! Would I fly as SLF on the aircraft? Yes I would, but would tend to avoid flying on the type if at all possible.

[PHXPhlyer]

I have types in both B737 and Airbus 320 family.
Airbus is far ahead in workload reducing automation.
As far as the Max goes; I talked to the crews on the few times I deadheaded on them (pre grounding ). Nice big screens and a little more automation but still a 737 at heart.

PP

[ExSp33db1rd]

Airbus is far ahead in workload reducing automation.

The dangers of the Digital Age ? Less Hands On ?

......but still a 737 at heart. Good, basically a good old 707 ?

[k3k3]

707, 727, 737 and 757 all used the same basic fuselage barrel which kept production costs down.

The 737 started life as a mini 707 with 60% capacity, a feeder liner to take passengers to the long range 707, the Max -10 now carries more passengers than was ever dreamed of for the 707.

[TheGreenAnger]

United summarises their take on the safety of the 737' Max! I believe them but my basic premise for querying the the root cause for the kludge (i.e. MCAS) persists! The bigger aircraft needed bigger engines that simply wouldn't fit under the existing 737 design so they moved them forward on redesigned pylons and lo a problem was born!

Boeing have fixed the symptoms but not the cause. The Max was one 737 type upgrade too far methinks!

https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/tr ... 7-MAX.html

[k3k3]

Bring back the 757, Spirit can carry on making the fuselages, put a new 737 type wing on with 757 inner wing to accommodate the tall undercarriage, lots of room for big engines, fit airstairs for austere airports.

Job jobbed!

If only life were that simple.

[TheGreenAnger]

Bring back the 757, Spirit can carry on making the fuselages, put a new 737 type wing on with 757 inner wing to accommodate the tall undercarriage, lots of room for big engines, fit airstairs for austere airports.

Job jobbed!

If only life were that simple.

Yes, that is exactly what they should have done but didn't do in the name of type training commonality and recertification costs etc. and we know the result of that now.

[Rwy in Sight]

Plus the weight penalty of the airstairs for austere airports will be prohibited.

[llondel]

I agree they should have started with the 757 to cope with the larger engines. It might well have worked out cheaper all round.

[PHXPhlyer]

Boeing’s 737 Max 10 Approval Will Likely Be Delayed Until Next Summer
Aircraft risks missing crucial year-end certification deadline
Possible delay was relayed by FAA head to lawmaker in letter

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ext-summer

Boeing Co. doesn’t expect its 737 Max 10 model to be ready for certification until next summer at the soonest, US aviation regulators told a key lawmaker.

The planemaker’s latest plan was relayed in a letter Monday from Federal Aviation Administration acting Administrator Billy Nolen to Senator Roger Wicker, a Mississippi Republican. The comments provided the latest indication that the plane won’t meet a crucial deadline to finalize its approvals by the end of 2022.

Congress in 2020 had required that newly built airliners have more modern safety alerting systems in the wake of the twin fatal crashes on a similar plane, the Max 8, after assurances the last remaining 737 models would be cleared to fly by this year. But both the Max 7 and Max 10 models of the jet are in danger of missing the upcoming deadline, Nolen said. The jets face costly redesigns unless Congress acts to change the law.

Related: Boeing’s Max 7 at Risk of Missing Key Deadline, US Warns

“I support my team taking the time they need to fully understand the human factors assumptions” on the planes, Nolen said in the letter, which was reviewed by Bloomberg.

The prospect of a lengthy delay for the Max 10 -- Boeing’s only new offering in the hotly competitive midrange market -- adds pressure on the planemaker to forge a coalition of lawmakers willing to support extending the deadline. A leading critic, Representative Peter DeFazio, the Oregon Democrat who chairs the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, is retiring later this year.

Asked at a press conference Tuesday what it will take to avoid having to redesign the planes, Nolen said, “Any change to any deadline is within the purview of Congress and it is up to them.”

Boeing declined to comment on the letter, referring instead to a prior statement that it’s “focused on meeting all regulatory requirements to certify the 737-7 and 737-10, and safety remains the driving factor in this effort.”

The planemaker’s shares climbed 4.8% at 10:52 a.m. in New York. The FAA letter was earlier reported by Reuters.

PP

[PHXPhlyer]

Passengers in fatal Boeing 737 MAX crashes are ‘crime victims,’ US judge says

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/22/business ... index.html

A US judge in Texas ruled on Friday that people killed in two Boeing (BA) 737 MAX crashes are legally considered “crime victims,” a designation that will determine what remedies should be imposed.

In December, some crash victims’ relatives said the US Justice Department violated their legal rights when it struck a January 2021 deferred prosecution agreement with the planemaker over two crashes that killed 346 people.


The families argued the government “lied and violated their rights through a secret process” and asked US District Judge Reed O’Connor to rescind Boeing’s immunity from criminal prosecution – which was part of the $2.5 billion agreement – and order the planemaker publicly arraigned on felony charges.

O’Connor ruled on Friday that “in sum, but for Boeing’s criminal conspiracy to defraud the (Federal Aviation Administration), 346 people would not have lost their lives in the crashes.”

Paul Cassell, a lawyer for the families, said the ruling “is a tremendous victory” and “sets the stage for a pivotal hearing, where we will present proposed remedies that will allow criminal prosecution to hold Boeing fully accountable.”

Boeing did not immediately comment.

After the families filed the legal challenge saying their rights were violated under the Crime Victims’ Rights Act, Attorney General Merrick Garland met with some of them but stood by the plea deal, which included a $244 million fine, $1.77 billion compensation to airlines and a $500 million crash-victim fund.

The deal capped a 21-month investigation into the design and development of the 737 MAX following the deadly crashes in Indonesia and Ethiopia in 2018 and 2019.


Boeing did not disclose key details to the FAA of a safety system called MCAS, which was linked to both fatal crashes and designed to help counter a tendency of the MAX to pitch up. “Had Boeing not committed its crime” pilots in Ethiopia and Indonesia would have “received training adequate to respond to the MCAS activation that occurred on both aircrafts,” O’Connor ruled.

The crashes, which have cost Boeing more than $20 billion in compensation, production costs, and fines, and led to a 20-month grounding for the best-selling plane, prompted Congress to pass legislation reforming FAA airplane certification.

Boeing wants Congress to waive a December deadline imposed by the legislation for the FAA to certify the MAX 7 and MAX 10. After that date, all planes must have modern cockpit alerting systems, which the 737 planes do not have.

Last month, Boeing paid $200 million to settle Securities and Exchange Commission charges it misled investors about the MAX.

pp

[PHXPhlyer]

Boeing reports unexpected loss after taking hits from Air Force One, Starliner programs

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/26/business ... index.html

Boeing reported an unexpected loss in the third quarter Wednesday after taking a massive $2.8 billion charge related to its high profile defense and space businesses, including completing the new versions of Air Force One and its much delayed Starliner space capsule.

The company also continued to report losses from its core commercial jet unit, even with increased deliveries lifting revenue for the company in an otherwise disappointing quarter of red ink.

The charges in the defense and space businesses were for contracts where Boeing gets a fixed amount of revenue from its government clients and isn’t able to pass along cost increases.

Those programs include refurbishing two 747 jets that will become the next generation of Air Force One. The delivery of those planes was again delayed during the quarter and now won’t be completed for at least another four years.

The company is being paid $3.9 billion for the jets and has already taken a $660 million charge for losses on the planes in the first quarter of this year. CEO Dave Calhoun said at the time that the contract had been a mistake for the company.

Another source of the charge came from the Starliner program to build capsules to carry astronauts to the International Space Station. In August, Boeing pushed back the first crewed flight of the long-delayed project to early next year. Also included in the charge was a training jet for Air Force pilots as well as tanker jets and drones used to refuel planes mid-flight.

The charge resulted in an operating loss of $2.8 billion at the defense and space unit, compared to a $436 million profit it made there last year. Boeing did not specify how much of this latest charge was related to each program.

The commercial jet business delivered 112 planes in the quarter, up from 85 a year ago, including resumed deliveries of the 787 Dreamliner, which had been halted by the Federal Aviation Administration due to quality control problems. Those increased deliveries helped lift revenue 4% to $16 billion, which in turn helped Boeing have a positive cash flow in the quarter. But the commercial plane unit reported an operating loss of $643 million.

01 Air Force One presidents
Delivery of new Air Force One planes delayed again
“While our cash generation was strong, our revenue and earnings were significantly impacted by losses on fixed-price development programs in our defense business, driven by higher estimated manufacturing and supply chain costs, as well as technical challenges,” Calhoun said in a statement to employees.

Boeing reported a net loss of $3.3 billion, far worse than the $132 million hit a year ago. The company had returned to profitability in the second quarter, with net income of $160 million, and analysts surveyed by Refinitiv had been forecasting another net profit of $347 million.

The company posted a core operating loss of $3.1 billion, compared to the narrow operating profit of $59 million a year earlier and earnings of $490 million on that basis in the second quarter of this year. Analysts had been expecting core operating earnings of $648 million rather than the massive loss.

The company said it should still have positive cash flow for the year, despite all the problems, which likely prevented the stock from plunging on the report. Shares of Boeing (BA), a component of the Dow Jones industrial average, were mostly flat in early trading Wednesday.

PP

[G-CPTN]

refurbishing two 747 jets that will become the next generation of Air Force One. The delivery of those planes was again delayed during the quarter and now won’t be completed for at least another four years.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

The authority structure, and attitude of the execs, that have led to the accidents and other design flaws, have not changed.
Nor have any of the execs been put up before the courts.
What on Earth is the basis for thinking that Boeings will improve in the future?
The kleptocratic accountants in charge are not about to change their spots.
They aren't going to stop over-riding the engineers if they think they can hide or absolve themselves of responsibility for flaws.
They'll just put their efforts into hiding their mistakes better.

It's the same with GM, and a lot of other large companies.

[ribrash]

I can,t for the life of me understand why some of you are concerned as to what boeing is doing or not doing.Its s not as though you are flying on them once a week.Its not as though they are falling out of the sky a few times a week.You,ve better things to worry about.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

For me, because it is an excellent bellwether of what is going on in the rest of corporate America, most of which is a lot less publicized.

[ribrash]

Are other airlines dropping out of the sky on a weekly basis ? If so they are hiding it well.

[PHXPhlyer]

Boeing 737 MAX 7 will not fly in 2022: FAA

https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/3270 ... ly-in-2023

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) reiterated that the Boeing 737 MAX-7, the smallest variant in the 737 MAX family, will not be certified in 2022, with the aircraft now potentially getting the stamp of approval in 2023.

Billy Nolen, the FAA’s acting administrator, stated that “it does not appear” that the aircraft will get its certification papers by the end of the year, as reported by Reuters.

The regulator’s words are in line with what Boeing has previously stated. The manufacturer’s Commercial Airplane division’s President and Chief Executive Officer (CEO) indicated during the Boeing Investor days in November 2022 that the company has been working with the FAA and anticipated that the smallest 737 MAX variant will be certified in early 2023.

Previously, though, Boeing hoped the 737 MAX-7 would be given the green light by the FAA in 2022.In September 2022, Boeing’s chief executive David Calhoun said he was still hopeful that would be the case. Calhoun’s comments at that time came a week after the FAA’s Nolen said he “is not going to commit to a timeline” to certify either of the two 737 MAX variants that still require approval.

Boeing is now facing the prospect of two of its jets failing to comply with a law that would require certified aircraft to have modern alert systems. The law will go into effect on December 31, 2022, which will then require the plane maker to equip both the 737 MAX-7 and the 737 MAX-10 with systems that comply with the Aircraft Certification, Safety and Accountability Act (ACSAA).

FAA tells Boeing some 737 MAX 7 documents are incomplete: reports
The FAA reportedly tells Boeing some 737 MAX 7 certification documents are incomplete and others need reassessing

The Boeing 737 MAX-7 first flew on March 16, 2018, when it began its flight-testing program. At the time, the manufacturer expected the FAA to certify the aircraft in 2019. Following the two fatal accidents in Indonesia and Ethiopia that claimed the lives of 346 people, the program was suspended until 2022.

PP

[PHXPhlyer]

The very last 747 jumbo jet just rolled off Boeing’s assembly line

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/06/business ... index.html

After 53 years and more than 1,570 planes, the last Boeing 747 rolled off the assembly line in Washington state Tuesday evening, on its way to serve as a cargo plane.

The once-groundbreaking jumbo jet, with the distinctive second-floor bulge, is perhaps the most notable and popular plane Boeing has ever built. It was even big enough to be used to ferry the Space Shuttle from landing strips in California to its launch site in Florida. And it is set to launch a new type of spacecraft by Virgin Orbit as soon as next week, after carrying it aloft under its wing.

The 747 was once the choice of the rich and glamorous, and even royalty. Many movies, including the 1973 James Bond classic “Live and Let Die” featured the plane, or sets made to look like the first class lounge on its upper level. The 747 still serves as Air Force One, as it has since 1990. Two already-assembled planes are undergoing work right now to be transformed into the next generation of the presidential jet. Those planes won’t be delivered for at least four years due to delays.

The last Boeing 747 left the company's widebody factory in Everett, Washington, Tuesday night. It is due to be delivered to Atlas Air for use as a freighter early next year.

Other than that use, the 747’s days as a passenger plane are now almost completely behind it. Airlines have moved away from planes with four fuel-guzzling engines like the 747. Rival Airbus (EADSF) dropped its own two-level jumbo jet, the A380, in 2019.

Boeing had signaled in 2020 that it would stop building the 747, even in its freighter form, as customers bought either the more fuel-efficient 777 freighter or saved money by reconditioning former 747 passenger jets as freighters. It has not yet announced plans for the factory in Everett, Washington, where it has been building the 747, but it does expect to keep it open. In order to build the massive plane the facility is 200 million cubic feet, which Boeing says makes it the world’s largest building by volume.

The passenger versions of the plane could carry between 400 to 500 passengers, at its maximum about twice as many passengers as one of Boeing’s current widebody jets, the 787-8 Dreamliner. But Boeing hasn’t built a passenger version of the 747 since it delivered the last one to Korean Airlines in 2017. This last 747 will go to Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings (AAWW), which will operate the plane for Swiss logistics company Kuehne+Nagel. Tuesday’s final plane will be flown to another Boeing facility shop for painting and other final details, before being delivered to Atlas early next year.

Today there are only 44 passenger versions of the 747 still in service, according to aviation analytics firm Cirium. More than half of those — 25 — are flown by Lufthansa.

That total is down from more than 130 in service as passenger jets at the end of 2019, just before the pandemic crippled demand for air travel, especially on international routes on which the 747 and other widebody jets were primarily used. Most of those passenger versions of the jets were grounded during the early months of the pandemic and never returned to service.

But there are still 314 747 freighters in use, according to Cirium, many of which were initially used as passenger jets before being renovated into freighters.

“The 747-8 is an incredibly capable aircraft, with capacity that is unmatched by any other freighter in production,” said UPS in 2020, when Boeing signaled it would soon stop building the jet. “With a maximum payload of 307,000 lbs., we use them on long, high-volume routes, connecting Asia, North America, Europe and the Middle East.”

The current version of the 747 is 250 feet and 2 inches long, the longest commercial plane now in service, or about twice the length of the Wright Brothers’ first flight. It has a wingspan of 224 feet and 5 inches.

Boeing delivered the first 747 passenger jets in December 1969 to two airlines that no longer exist — TWA and Pan Am. Delta Air Lines (DAL) was the last US airline to fly a passenger version of the plane, also in 2017. That was the last year the final US 747 passenger flights — by both Delta and United (UAL) — drew large crowds of the plane’s fans, a testament to its enduring popularity.

PP

[PHXPhlyer]

Boeing ordered to appear in court next week on fraud conspiracy charge

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/19/business ... index.html

A federal judge has ordered Boeing to appear in federal court in Texas next week for an arraignment on a fraud charge involving the certification of the 737 MAX.

Boeing and the US government in 2021 entered into a deferred prosecution agreement in this case without the participation of family members of the 737 MAX crash victims, who then argued to the court that they should have been allowed to participate in the case under a federal crime victim law. In October, the judge sided with them.

In Thursday’s ruling, Judge Reed O’Connor said Boeing must appear for an arraignment and that the family members or their attorneys may speak at the proceeding.

This legal process is separate from the civil action the victims’ family members filed against Boeing.

The Clifford Law Office, representing the victims’ family members in the civil suit, said in a statement that it is “rare in US aviation law history that a corporation is arraigned on criminal charges regarding the deaths of plane crash victims.”

In September, Boeing and its former CEO Dennis Muilenburg agreed to pay hefty fines to settle charges from the Securities and Exchange Commission that they misled the public about the safety of the 737 Max following two fatal crashes in 2018 and 2019.

PP