More Boeing Bad News

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Yet another view

#401 Post by Boac » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:17 pm


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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#402 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:41 am

One really has to question Boeing's thinking in chosing to stick with 16 bit hardware when 64 bit is norm in most industries (albeit often running 32 bit applications).
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#403 Post by Rwy in Sight » Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:21 am

TGG not sure if it makes sense but maybe 16 bit hardware was the common reliable hardware when the MAX's development started.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#404 Post by ribrash » Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:20 pm

Rwy in Sight wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:21 am
TGG not sure if it makes sense but maybe 16 bit hardware was the common reliable hardware when the MAX's development started.
....And it helps with running Windows 3`1. :ymdevil:

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#405 Post by Rwy in Sight » Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:23 pm

ribrash wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:20 pm
Rwy in Sight wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:21 am
TGG not sure if it makes sense but maybe 16 bit hardware was the common reliable hardware when the MAX's development started.
....And it helps with running Windows 3`1. :ymdevil:
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#406 Post by boing » Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:53 pm

The computer operation is not really a factor. The basic airframe design of the Max is the root problem overlaid with poor systems design and clutzed work-arounds to compensate for the poor basic design.
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#407 Post by ian16th » Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:13 pm

Not much difference!
737-100.jpg
737-Max.jpg
Cynicism improves with age

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#408 Post by PHXPhlyer » Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:55 am

Boeing to resume plane production in Washington state

Aircraft manufacturer Boeing said Thursday it will resume plane production starting next week at its Washington state facilities in a "phased approach," after operations had been suspended due to the coronavirus epidemic.

Boeing said the resumption at its Puget Sound area facilities will result in around 27,000 people getting back to work. The facilities have extra safeguards in place to protect employees from the coronavirus illness COVID-19, the company said.

Among the safeguards will be staggered ***** times to reduce the flow of workers, floor markings to help enforce physical distancing, a requirement that all workers have face coverings, and wellness checks before shifts. Employees who can work from home will continue to do, the company said.

Boeing’s shutdown went into effect March 25 after workers tested positive for the virus and a longtime inspector for the company died, The Associated Press reported. Gov. Jay Inslee at the time praised the company for the shutdown and for continuing to pay workers.

Safety first! =))

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#409 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:12 am

PHXPhlyer wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:55 am
Boeing to resume plane production in Washington state

Boeing’s shutdown went into effect March 25 after workers tested positive for the virus and a longtime inspector for the company died, The Associated Press reported. Gov. Jay Inslee at the time praised the company for the shutdown and for continuing to pay workers.

Safety first! =))

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#410 Post by PHXPhlyer » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:19 pm

Boeing won't be returning to 'normal' anytime soon
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/18/business ... index.html

New York (CNN Business)Boeing's assembly lines will lurch to a start next week, building commercial aircraft for the first time since its Washington state assembly shut down a month ago. But the utter collapse of demand for air travel means its airline customers may not need those jets -- and might not even accept them.

"If you're an airline today, your last focus these days is buying airplanes, your primary focus is survival," said Ron Epstein, aerospace analyst with Bank of America Merrill Lynch.
News that Boeing plans to resume production helped lift its shares 14% Friday. But it doesn't change the fact that so far this year Boeing has had four times as many orders for new jets canceled -- 196 -- as it has booked new orders. Another 160 orders have been deferred and are no longer counted in its backlog of orders.
And while most of the canceled planes are Boeing's troubled 737 Max, which has been grounded since March 2019 following two fatal crashes that killed 346 people, the problem is much broader than that safety issue. It's the fact that airlines aren't going to need new planes for the foreseeable future.
Most jets worldwide are parked
Of the worldwide fleet of 26,000 passenger jets, nearly 17,000, or 64%, are now parked at airports around the globe, according to tracking service Cirium.
"Nobody is flying," said Epstein. "The longer this goes on, the chances rise that the airlines don't need to buy airplanes."
In the face of health concerns, travel restrictions and stay-at-home orders put in place due to the coronavirus outbreak, demand for air travel is "essentially zero" according to a statement this week from United Airlines. It cut its May schedule by 90%, and warned that demand for travel is likely to stay depressed in 2021. Other airlines are making similar cuts and issuing similar warnings.
Boeing (BA) rival Airbus (EADSF) announced last week that it was able to deliver only 122 of the 182 jets it built in the quarter, reflecting "customer requests to defer deliveries, as well as other factors related to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic." It also cut its future production plans by about 30%.
Boeing has yet to say at what pace it will build planes when it resumes production next week, but experts expect cuts in production rates there as well.
Deliveries will be much lower
Epstein and other experts say they don't expect deliveries to drop to zero, even if they're sharply curtailed by the current crisis. The airlines have already arranged financing for many of the planes close to delivery. And the newer planes are more efficient to operate than the older ones, although with fuel prices sharply lower, that advantage is diminished.
"You buy a plane for 15 to 20 years, not for over the next six months," said Chris Denicolo, credit analyst with Standard & Poors.
The good news for Boeing and Airbus is that both have huge backlogs of orders. Boeing had 5,400 orders on backlog as of the end of March and Airbus about 7,500. Even if each has order cancellations equal to a quarter of that backlog, they'll have enough plane orders to keep building for several years, when the demand for travel and planes is expected to have recovered.
"Most industries would kill to have orders for the next five to six years," said Denicolo.
Still, industrywide deliveries are likely to be down 50% to 60% this year, according to an estimate from Laurent Rouaud, co-founder of aviation consultant Avwork Partners. Boeing's and Airbus's combined deliveries were already down 22% in 2019 due to the 737 Max crisis. A drop of an additional 600 jets would cut sharply into both companies' cash flow as they earn most of their revenue when an airline takes delivery of a jet.
Why Boeing is going to restart building jets
So why exactly is Boeing building jets again? Mainly, to help support its suppliers, many of whom have been badly damaged by Boeing's problems with the 737 Max, which temporarily stopped production in January. As workers start building other plane models again next week, a separate team will prepare to resume production of the 737 Max, although Boeing doesn't expect approval from aviation regulators around the world for it to fly again until the middle of this year.
"I think part of it is trying to keep the supply chain healthy," said Denicolo. "The longer this goes on, the smaller suppliers, the ones you and I haven't heard of, could go out of business, and that could cause bigger problems going forward. That could delay production restart."
Boeing CEO Dave Calhoun acknowledged concern about suppliers is a factor in resuming production.
"For every dollar Boeing spends, approximately 70 cents goes directly to our suppliers," he said to employees Thursday as he announced the resumption of work. "Our team continues to focus on the best ways to keep liquidity flowing through our business and to our supply chain until our customers are buying airplanes again. We continue to believe strongly in the future of aviation and of Boeing as the industry leader and are willing to borrow against that future."
Boeing plans to restart its Washington state factories next week
Boeing plans to restart its Washington state factories next week
But while Boeing is doing what it can to help suppliers by resuming production, it's simultaneously preparing for lean years ahead.
The company is offering buyouts and enhanced pension benefits as a way of cutting staff voluntarily before moving to involuntary job cuts.
The company had about 161,000 employees at the start of 2020 two-thirds of whom work in the commercial airplane division. Epstein estimates that 20% to 25% of those jobs are at risk.
"We're in uncharted waters," Calhoun told his Boeing employees Thursday. "The impact of this global virus will change our business for years to come."

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#411 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:27 pm

It is a tough one, and I hope Boeing are sincere in pushing forward, carefully, to activate their business, and bring life to their suppliers as well. Hopefully with more humility and technical and engineering integrity than of late.

I wish them and their staff and well. Boeing was a great company and can be again.
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Embraer likely to sue Boeing...

#412 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:04 am

Embraer will likely sue Boeing after the collapse of a $4.2 billion deal to buy Embraer’s commercial aircraft division. Boeing announced on Saturday it was pulling out of the deal and said it’s because Embraer didn’t live up to its end of the deal. “Boeing has worked diligently over more than two years to finalize its transaction with Embraer. Over the past several months, we had productive but ultimately unsuccessful negotiations about unsatisfied MTA (master transaction agreement) conditions,” said Marc Allen, president of Embraer Partnership & Group Operations. “It is deeply disappointing. But we have reached a point where continued negotiation within the framework of the MTA is not going to resolve the outstanding issues.”


But Embraer said it fulfilled its obligations under the MTA and it was Boeing that defaulted to wriggle out of a deal it couldn’t afford. “We believe Boeing has engaged in a systematic pattern of delay and repeated violations of the MTA, because of its unwillingness to complete the transaction in light of its own financial condition and 737 MAX and other business and reputational problems,” Embraer said in a terse statement Saturday. Friday was the deadline for the two companies to have completed a series of conditions before the deal could proceed and Embraer says it wants money from Boeing for its departure. “Embraer will pursue all remedies against Boeing for the damages incurred by Embraer as a result of Boeing’s wrongful termination and violation of the MTA,” the company said.
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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#413 Post by barkingmad » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:14 am

“Embraer likely to sue Boeing”?
At least the lawyers will be happy and wealthier, no one else will...

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#414 Post by PHXPhlyer » Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:09 pm

Boeing will cut 16,000 jobs after posting a massive loss
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/29/business ... index.html

New York (CNN Business)Boeing said it will slash staff and production after posting a massive first-quarter loss. Demand for air travel has evaporated during the coronavirus outbreak, and the aerospace company continues to reel from the 737 Max grounding.

The company announced it would cut 10% of its jobs, about 16,000 positions, through a combination of buyouts, natural attrition and involuntary layoffs. The cuts will be deepest in Boeing's commercial airplane unit -- about 15% of jobs. And Boeing said it would drastically scale back production of the two widebody passenger jets, the 787 Dreamliner and the 777.
"The demand for commercial airline travel has fallen off a cliff," said Boeing CEO Dave Calhoun. "The pandemic is also delivering a body blow to our business."
The company lost $1.7 billion from its core operations, a bit worse than Wall Street had expected. Boeing was hit by both by the 737 Max crisis as well as airlines canceling and delaying orders for new planes because of of the pandemic. A shutdown of its factories due to health concerns cost the company $137 million.
More than two-thirds of aircraft around the world are now parked, according to tracking firm Cirium, as airlines slash their flight schedules. Passenger demand is down about 90%.
Tuesday Southwest Airlines (LUV), one of Boeing's best customers, disclosed it had delayed delivery of at least 55% of the planes it had previously scheduled for delivery from Boeing this year or next.
Widebody jets, Boeing's strongest sector, could also be hurt because of their use on long-range international flights. At Boeing's annual meeting Monday, CEO Dave Calhoun said the expectation is that the demand for international travel will take even longer to rebound than the demand for domestic travel.
Boeing will cut production of the 787 Dreamliner to seven a month from 12. The 777, of which it is about to debut a new version, will be cut to three a month. The 747 and 767, which Boeing is building primarily only as freighters for cargo use, will maintain their current production levels.
Boeing won't be returning to 'normal' anytime soon
Boeing won't be returning to 'normal' anytime soon
Boeing suspended production of its bestselling jet, the 737 Max, in January, ahead of the pandemic's impact on most air travel. Instead the halt was due to its prolonged grounding in March last year following two fatal crashes that killed 346 people.
While it recently resumed production of its other jets, the 737 Max line remains shut for now. Boeing said it will build only 31 of the jets each month when it does resume, and said it will only gradually build to that level. It had been building 52 planes a month at the time of the grounding.
Boeing rival Airbus (EADSF) has also been hit by a sharp drop in demand for jets because of canceled orders and postponed deliveries. It has cut production rates by about one third, and on Monday it furloughed about 6,000 employees. Wednesday it report a net loss of €481 million, as CEO Guillaume Faury warned "We are still at an early stage of this crisis."
Shares of Dow component Boeing (BA) moved 3.5% higher on the news.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#415 Post by Boac » Sat May 09, 2020 6:05 pm


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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#416 Post by G-CPTN » Sat May 09, 2020 6:51 pm

They must have found more vacant land.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#417 Post by PHXPhlyer » Thu May 28, 2020 3:10 am

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/busine ... 0-n1215601

Boeing to lay off almost 7,000 workers this week, for total of 12,000 job losses
"I wish there were some other way," Boeing CEO David Calhoun wrote, in a letter to employees.
Boeing has been battling its biggest ever crisis, with the coronavirus pandemic exacerbating the company's woes after two fatal crashes led to the grounding of its best-selling 737 Max jet.
Boeing has been battling its biggest ever crisis, with the coronavirus pandemic exacerbating the company's woes after two fatal crashes led to the grounding of its best-selling 737 Max jet.Elaine Thompson / AP
May 27, 2020, 9:47 AM MST
By Lucy Bayly
Boeing announced plans to lay off almost 7,000 workers this week, as the coronavirus crisis continues to hammer the aircraft manufacturer.

"We have come to the unfortunate moment of having to start involuntary layoffs. We’re notifying the first 6,770 of our U.S. team members this week that they will be affected," Boeing CEO David Calhoun wrote Wednesday in a letter to employees.

The Chicago-based airplane manufacturer — the biggest exporter in the U.S. — already announced it would trim its workforce by around 10 percent. Boeing said Wednesday that 5,520 employees had been approved for voluntary layoff. Calhoun also said Wednesday that international locations would see "workforce reductions."

"I wish there were some other way," Calhoun wrote.

Citing the "whipsawing" of the global pandemic, Calhoun said "it will take some years" for the airline industry to "return to what it was just two months ago."

Air travel has seen a 95 percent decline in traffic since the coronavirus hit, with major airlines canceling the majority of domestic flights, suspending nearly all international flights, pulling out of airports, laying off pilots and crew, and cutting worker pay and hours.

"The threat to the airline industry is grave. There's no question about it. And apocalyptic does actually accurately describe the moment," Calhoun said earlier this month in an interview with Savannah Guthrie on NBC's "TODAY."

He also suggested that a major U.S. airline would "most likely" have to go out of business as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.

That comment drew the ire of the major airlines, requiring some smoothing over of the relationship between Boeing and its key customers. A high-ranking airline executive at United Airlines complained to Calhoun about the comment, and American Airlines CEO Doug Parker was also upset about the Boeing CEO’s comment, a person familiar with the matter told CNBC.

Boeing has been battling its biggest ever crisis, after two fatal crashes involving its best-selling 737 Max jet. In March, the company saw a near-record number of order cancellations for its passenger jets, and zero new orders in April, exacerbating its financial woes. The troubled 737 Max has been grounded worldwide since last March.

Former CEO Dennis Muilenburg left his job in December, after a complete halt to production of the Max led to the company's worst year in decades.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#418 Post by Undried Plum » Thu May 28, 2020 8:10 am

PHXPhlyer wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:10 am
He also suggested that a major U.S. airline would "most likely" have to go out of business as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.

He's right. There will have to be a Lehmans moment.

Then the money 'printers' will churn out sufficient empty dollars to bail out the other bankrupts.

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#419 Post by barkingmad » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:47 am

What a shame that Mr Boeing did not hear or maybe ignored questions and advice such as this from a humble student of engineering when they were at the drawing-board stage of the Max design?
Spoiler alert, there is NO Covid-19 reference in this video, in case of viewer disappointment!



According to all the reporting there certainly were enough people expressing concern about the Max philosophy but for some odd reason they were ignored or over-ruled. Therefore was there more corporate humility in the days when the Citicorp building was on the drawing-board? And has 21st Century hubris blinded our techies and scientists to the potential defects in their exotic plans?
K I S S!

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Re: More Boeing Bad News

#420 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:55 pm

barkingmad wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:47 am
What a shame that Mr Boeing did not hear or maybe ignored questions and advice such as this from a humble student of engineering when they were at the drawing-board stage of the Max design?
Spoiler alert, there is NO Covid-19 reference in this video, in case of viewer disappointment!



According to all the reporting there certainly were enough people expressing concern about the Max philosophy but for some odd reason they were ignored or over-ruled. Therefore was there more corporate humility in the days when the Citicorp building was on the drawing-board? And has 21st Century hubris blinded our techies and scientists to the potential defects in their exotic plans?
K I S S!
Le Messurier seems like an honest man despite keeping the public in the dark!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_LeMessurier

https://www.damninteresting.com/a-poten ... #more-500/

Forget about keeping it simple stupid. I am sure Le Mesurier wanted to give the smart Ms Hartley a kiss.

Fascinating stuff. Thanks for posting.

NB - These bozos could have done with a Ms Hartley on their team...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_R ... y_collapse
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