More Boeing Bad News

Message
Author
Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#621 Post by Pontius Navigator » Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:28 pm

prospector wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:35 pm
And a most unusual, probably a first, cockpit problem. A not to be rehearsed in the simulator (Thread drift sri)

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/fl ... cid=msedgd
Artificial horizon uncaged at take-off, take-off aborted.

User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17596
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: With the Water People near Trappist-1

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#622 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:11 pm

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:28 pm
prospector wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:35 pm
And a most unusual, probably a first, cockpit problem. A not to be rehearsed in the simulator (Thread drift sri)

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/fl ... cid=msedgd
Artificial horizon uncaged at take-off, take-off aborted.

Hereby hangs a strange bushy tail! Was this your run of the mill moggy or was it some sort of African wild cat?
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

k3k3
Capt
Capt
Posts: 1492
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:44 pm
Location: In the Transit Lounge

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#623 Post by k3k3 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:46 pm

Looked wild enough to me! I don't think they asked for its passport.

PHXPhlyer
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 8239
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:56 pm
Location: PHX
Gender:
Age: 69

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#624 Post by PHXPhlyer » Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:00 pm

The 737 Max crisis costs continues to climb two years after the second fatal crash

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/10/investin ... index.html

The 737 Max crisis costs continues to climb two years after the second fatal crash

New York (CNN Business)Wednesday marked a grim anniversary for Boeing and hundreds of families worldwide -- two years since the fatal crash of a 737 Max flown by Ethiopian Airlines that killed all 157 people on board. While the human toll outweighs the financial accounting of the crisis, the dollar cost is likely to make Boeing's 737 Max safety issues one of the most costly corporate mistakes ever.

Boeing (BA) has already detailed about $21 billion in costs associated with the crisis, including nearly $9 billion in compensation for airlines that couldn't or still can't use those jets, and about $11 billion in increased production costs associated with the slower rate of building that will last for years.
And then there are the $744 million in additional costs -- so far -- mostly from storing hundreds of Max jets built during the grounding that Boeing couldn't deliver. Even with Boeing customers now getting those planes, it will be well into 2023 before airlines take possession of them.
And that doesn't begin to even address Boeing's legal exposure. The company paid a $244 million fine to settle criminal fraud charges late last year. But that was just the start of the costs. Boeing has announced two victims compensation funds, one created in 2019 for $100 million, another part of a fraud settlement for an additional $500 million. And most of the families of victims have yet to settle their lawsuits against the company. It could face an additional $500 million in legal costs by some estimates.
Indirect costs mount as well
There are also lost sales for the 737 Max. Typically -- even during a downturn in air travel -- airlines are reluctant to cancel orders for jets because of significant fees and penalties. But the grounding dragged on so long the penalties clause in the sales contracts were no longer in effect. By the time the Covid-19 pandemic caused air travel to ground to a near halt, Boeing was already flooded with order cancellations for the Max -- nearly 800 of the planes.
A 737 Max typically sells for about $55 million. Under the worst-case scenario for Boeing is that it could lose as much as $44 billion in revenue from the drop in sales.
Experts say Boeing will eventually sell those planes, albeit it at a steep discount, perhaps even to the same customers who are now canceling their orders. So even if Boeing doesn't lose the full $44 billion from canceled orders, the lower pricing on the Max could cost it tens of billions.
Boeing won't comment on sales prices for any of its planes.

And then there are Boeing's the increased borrowing costs -- Boeing took on tens of billions in debt during the crisis, most of it at about a 5% interest rate. That means the interest will pile up by perhaps $3 billion or $4 billion, said Chris Denicolo, aerospace credit analyst with Standard & Poor's.
Beyond those hard costs there remains the question of how the crisis has affected Boeing's competitive position.
Before the crashes the company was working on plans for a new, longer range, mid-size plane that could compete the A321XLR now being sold by rival Airbus with a 2023 target date for its debut. Boeing says it hasn't stopped work on developing its competing offering, popularly referred to as the 797, but it is well behind its original plans for the plane.
Boeing desperately needed a new offering to compete with the A321XLR, said Richard Aboulafia, aerospace analyst for the Teal Group. The duopoly enjoyed by Boeing and Airbus makes it unlikely that either company will go out of business. But not being competitive with Airbus in this key part of the market is a serious long-term threat to Boeing, he said.
"It could end up with only 25% to 30% of market," he said. "It doesn't mean you go away, but you're a lot less profitable, a lot less relevant."
A fateful anniversary
The March 10, 2019, crash was the second fatal accident involving the jet, following an October 2018 crash of a Lion Air 737 Max plane that killed 189 people. While no action was taken after the first crash, the second incident led to a 20-month global grounding of Boeing's best selling plane, as the aircraft maker tried to come up with an acceptable fix to the malfunctioning safety system that caused the crashes.
The US Federal Aviation Administration and aviation regulators for 159 other countries have at last approved the plane to carry passengers again, and airlines are rapidly returning it to service. Southwest Airlines, (LUV) which owns more Max jets than any carrier, will become the 15th airline to carry passengers on them once its 737-Max jets return to the air on Thursday.
Several family members of the crash victims met with US Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg Wednesday to express their concerns over the US approval for the plane to fly again. Others said the dollar cost of the 737 Max crisis don't begin to measure what they lost.
"We lost the most beautiful, caring, active, thoughtful, intelligent person," said Chris Moore, of Toronto, whose 24-year old daughter, Danielle, was killed on the Ethiopian jet. "The true cost of this loss is immeasurable, but this cost accrues to the family of Danielle Moore every minute of every day and night and especially during sleep. These costs are real."
The families are seeking a new US grounding for the Max, which they are unlikely to get. But 35 regulators around the globe have thus far refused to allow the plane to carry passengers, including China, where more than 20% of the planes are based.
The longer those groundings last, the more problems, and costs, for Boeing.

PP

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17205
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#625 Post by Boac » Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:55 pm

It ain't getting better!

"(March 16): Boeing Co. is scrutinizing the flight-deck windows of some of its 787 Dreamliners as the beleaguered planemaker expands its search for potential manufacturing flaws that have delayed deliveries of its marquee jetliner, according to people briefed on the matter.

Chicago-based Boeing has been testing the cockpit windows in a limited batch of aircraft after learning a supplier modified its production process, two of the people said, asking not to be identified because the matter is sensitive. Boeing wants to ensure the windows still meet its requirements after the change, but the testing isn’t expected to affect March deliveries, one of the people said.
"

User avatar
Alisoncc
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 4260
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:20 am
Location: Arrakis
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#626 Post by Alisoncc » Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:39 am

Boac wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:55 pm
It ain't getting better!

"(March 16): Boeing Co. is scrutinizing the flight-deck windows of some of its 787 Dreamliners as the beleaguered planemaker expands its search for potential manufacturing flaws that have delayed deliveries of its marquee jetliner, according to people briefed on the matter.
Probably got square windows now. Bit like one of ours - DH106 if I remember correctly. ;)))
Rev Mother Bene Gesserit.

Sent from my PDP11/05 running RSX-11D via an ASR33 (TTY)

User avatar
llondel
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5909
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:17 am
Location: San Jose

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#627 Post by llondel » Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:27 am

Hopefully the screw holes are the correct size.

PHXPhlyer
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 8239
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:56 pm
Location: PHX
Gender:
Age: 69

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#628 Post by PHXPhlyer » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:33 pm

Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will ground some of the jets again

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/09/business ... index.html

Boeing's 737 Max has new problem that will ground some of the jets again
By Chris Isidore and Pete Muntean, CNN Business
Updated 8:17 AM ET, Fri April 9, 2021

New York (CNN Business)Boeing announced a new problem with the troubled 737 Max -- this time, the issue is with its electrical system.

"Boeing has recommended to 16 customers that they address a potential electrical issue in a specific group of 737 Max airplanes prior to further operations," the company said.
Airlines need to verify that one of the components of the plane's electrical system is sufficiently grounded, Boeing stated. The company said it is working with the US Federal Aviation Administration to address the problem.
All of the planes were grounded for 20 months worldwide from March 2019 through November of 2020 following two fatal crashes that killed 346 people. Although the FAA has approved the fixes that Boeing made to the malfunctioning safety system blamed for the crashes, several other countries, including China, have yet to clear the plane to fly again. The grounding cost Boeing more than $20 billion.
Boeing (BA) did not identify which 16 airlines are affected by this alert, or how many of the planes are affected by the problem.
Many airlines that own the planes have been eager to get them back in service despite having many of their planes still parked during a period of reduced air traffic caused by the Covid-19 pandemic. The planes are more fuel efficient and have lower maintenance costs than earlier versions of the 737, which have remained in service during the grounding.
After a year of very weak demand for air travel, air traffic has picked up in recent months, especially in the United States. The airlines do not need to cancel flights to replace planes in their fleets.

Four US airlines -- Southwest (LUV), United (UAL), American (AAL) and Alaska Air (ALK) -- have the 737 Max planes in their fleets and are currently flying them. Southwest and United have placed orders for additional 737 Max jets since the grounding was lifted.
Southwest said Friday that the issue affects 30 of the 58 737 Max jets in its fleet. It says those planes will be replaced by other aircraft and that it "anticipates minimal disruption to our operation" since it flies Maxes on a limited schedule and the planes account for only a fraction of its planes in service.
American, the first US airline to begin flights with the Max in December, said last month that it has not seen any indication that passengers are less willing to fly the Max than they are other jets.

PP

User avatar
ian16th
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 10029
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:35 am
Location: KZN South Coast with the bananas
Gender:
Age: 87

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#629 Post by ian16th » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:21 pm

Who said that 'Mericans don't do irony?
Airlines need to verify that one of the components of the plane's electrical system is sufficiently grounded,
All of the planes were grounded for 20 months worldwide from March 2019 through November of 2020
Yet they can put this in successive sentences!!!!

=)) :YMPARTY:
Cynicism improves with age

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17205
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#630 Post by Boac » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:27 pm

Yes, the Septics really ought to learn to speak and write in English. After all, they have had long enough. The word is 'earthed'.

Grounding is what the Yanks do to naughty children isn't it?

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17205
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Is Boeing coming apart at the seams?

#631 Post by Boac » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:17 pm


Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17205
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#632 Post by Boac » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:07 am


User avatar
OFSO
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 18600
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:39 pm
Location: Teddington UK and Roses Catalunia
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#633 Post by OFSO » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:16 pm

I'm a bit worried about these Glitches being found in Boeing aircraft.

G-CPTN
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 7593
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:22 pm
Location: Tynedale
Gender:
Age: 79

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#634 Post by G-CPTN » Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:42 pm

I'm a bit worried about these Features being found in Boeing aircraft.

Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#635 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:52 pm

My old man was flown home from India in 1953 and told me he saw rivets popping. Knowing nothing about pressurised aircraft and familiar with ships popping rivets, he wasn't worried. The aircraft was G-ALYV.

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17205
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#636 Post by Boac » Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:51 am

According to news24.com:

The electrical issue is a setback after the MAX was cleared in November 2020 to return to service after a 20-month grounding following two fatal crashes.

The potential electrical problem that prompted airlines to remove some 737 MAX planes from service has been found in more areas of the plane than initially known, a report said Friday.

User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17596
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: With the Water People near Trappist-1

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#637 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:37 am

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:52 pm
My old man was flown home from India in 1953 and told me he saw rivets popping. Knowing nothing about pressurised aircraft and familiar with ships popping rivets, he wasn't worried. The aircraft was G-ALYV.
I guessed but had to look.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOAC_Flight_783
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

k3k3
Capt
Capt
Posts: 1492
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:44 pm
Location: In the Transit Lounge

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#638 Post by k3k3 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:52 am

Boac wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:27 pm
Yes, the Septics really ought to learn to speak and write in English. After all, they have had long enough. The word is 'earthed'.
Worse than that, they don't know the difference between earthing/grounding and bonding.
I spent 33 years trying to educate them without success.

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17205
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#639 Post by Boac » Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:49 am

Let me get this right - grounding is what you do with misbehaving kids and bonding is what you do with someone special? Can I be an American engineer now?

User avatar
tango15
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 2420
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:43 pm
Location: East Midlands
Gender:
Age: 79

Re: More Boeing Bad News

#640 Post by tango15 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:02 pm

Boac wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:49 am
Let me get this right - grounding is what you do with misbehaving kids and bonding is what you do with someone special? Can I be an American engineer now?
Yeah, you got it! Awesome! High fives all round and have a nice day! :))

Post Reply