Pegasus the winged horse?

Message
Author
Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17208
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#21 Post by Boac » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:25 pm

post #5 I wrote:Touchdown 3300 feet before wet runway end (9300ft+ runway) with a GROUND SPEED of 194kts and didn't stop? No sh!t, Sherlock.
Correction from AvHerald now - the 194kts was at the 1000 ft point on the approach. Estimated touchdown speed 130kts. This suggests there was not a significant tailwind at touchdown, but it was probably the ridiculously long landing wot dunnit. Whichever way, BIG questions to answer for the pilots and possibly the operators too.

User avatar
barkingmad
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:13 pm
Location: Another Planet
Gender:
Age: 75

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#22 Post by barkingmad » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:43 pm

Difficult to verify this and the “shower of sparks” looks more like landing lights in heavy nosewheel spray;

https://www.rt.com/news/480172-istanbul ... rash-cctv/

But the eventual disappearance has all the look of a downwards drop.

User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17596
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: With the Water People near Trappist-1

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#23 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:01 pm

Pegasus have a grisly recent safety record... despite IOSA accreditation...

https://aviation-safety.net/database/op ... p?var=8039

Not all of their own making to be fair...
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

Capetonian

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#24 Post by Capetonian » Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:26 pm

https://www.aeroinside.com/incidents/airline/pegasus

From this more exhaustive list, several of the incidents, those highlighted in yellow, are possibly or definitely due to poor airmanship or other cause attributable to flight deck crew, or possible maintenance defects. I certainly would not get on any Turkish airliner.

Pegasus B738 at Istanbul on Feb 5th 2020, overran runway, impacted wall, broke up (Published on 06.02.2020)
A Pegasus Boeing 737-800, registration TC-IZK performing flight PC-2193 from Izmir to Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen (Turkey) with 177 passengers and 6 crew, landed on Sabiha Gokcen's runway 06 at 18:20L... read more

TC-AMP
Pegasus B738 near Zagreb on Oct 2nd 2018, cargo smoke indication (Published on 03.12.2019)
A Pegasus Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration TC-AMP performing flight PC-1135 from Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen (Turkey) to Paris Orly (France) with 172 passengers and 6 crew, was enroute at FL380 about... read more

TC-AAL
Nordwind B738 at Ekaterinburg on Jan 17th 2019, cabin did not pressurize (Published on 18.01.2019)
A Nordwind Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration VP-BSK performing flight N4-174 from Ekaterinburg to Moscow Sheremetyevo (Russia) with 137 people on board, was climbing out of Ekaterinburg when the... read more

TC-CPU
Pegasus B738 at Bodrum on Nov 29th 2018, lightning strike (Published on 30.11.2018)
A Pegasus Boeing 737-800, registration TC-CPU performing flight PC-2248 from Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen to Bodrum (Turkey), was on approach to Bodrum descending through 5000 feet when the aircraft... read more

TC-CPA
Pegasus B738 at Zurich on Sep 7th 2018, flapless landing (Published on 10.09.2018)
A Pegasus Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration TC-CPA performing flight PC-947 from Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen (Turkey) to Zurich (Switzerland), was on approach to Zurich when the crew stopped the... read more

TC-NBA
Pegasus A20N at Istanbul on Jul 18th 2018, burst tyre on departure (Published on 17.07.2018)
A Pegasus Airlines Airbus A320-200N, registration TC-NBA performing flight PC-824 from Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen (Turkey) to Bahrain (Bahrain), was accelerating for takeoff from Sabiha Gokcen's runway... read more

TC-AVP
Pegasus B738 near Atyrau on Jun 24th 2018, engine shut down in flight (Published on 24.06.2018)
A Pegasus Boeing 737-800, registration TC-AVP performing flight PC-6773 from Novosibirsk (Russia) to Antalya (Turkey) with 190 passengers and 6 crew, was enroute at FL360 about 200nm northeast of... read more

TC-NBF
Pegasus A20N at Bucharest on Mar 30th 2018, touched down before runway threshold (Published on 05.04.2018)
A Pegasus Airbus A320-200N, registration TC-NBF performing flight PC-361 from Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen (Turkey) to Bucharest Otopeni (Romania), was on final approach to Otopeni's runway 08L when the... read more

TC-CPF
Pegasus B738 at Trabzon on Jan 13th 2018, runway excursion (Published on 18.01.2018)
A Pegasus Boeing 737-800, registration TC-CPF performing flight PC-8622 from Ankara to Trabzon (Turkey) with 162 passengers and 6 crew, landed on Trabzon's runway 11 at 23:26L (20:26Z) but veered... read more

TC-DCB
Pegasus A320 at Gulyali on Aug 16th 2017, bird strike (Published on 16.08.2017)
A Pegasus Airlines Airbus A320-200, registration TC-DCB performing flight PC-2862 from Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen to Gulyali (Turkey), was on final approach to Gulyali's runway 28 when a bird... read more

TC-AHP
Pegasus B738 near Istanbul on Jul 27th 2017, hail strike (Published on 28.07.2017)
A Pegasus Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration TC-AHP performing flight PC-909 from Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen (Turkey) to Vienna (Austria), was climbing out of Istanbul's Sabiha Gokcen Airport when the... read more

TC-DCJ
Pegasus A320 at Istanbul on Nov 25th 2016, bird strike (Published on 25.11.2016)
A Pegasus Airlines Airbus A320-200, registration TC-DCJ performing flight PC-383 from Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen (Turkey) to Hamburg (Germany), departed Sabiha Gokcen Airport's runway 06 but suffered a... read more

TC-CPA
Pegasus B738 near Moscow on Nov 2nd 2016, descent without clearance results in TCAS RA (Published on 03.11.2016)
A Pegasus Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration TC-CPA performing flight PC-884 from Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen (Turkey) to Moscow Domodedovo (Russia), was descending towards Moscow cleared to maintain... read more

TC-ARP
Pegasus B738 at Bologna on Sep 4th 2016, damaged runway surface on landing (Published on 04.09.2016)
A Pegasus Boeing 737-800, registration TC-ARP performing flight PC-423 from Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen (Turkey) to Bologna (Italy), landed on Bologna's runway 12 at 14:37L (12:37Z), slowed and vacated... read more

TC-AAV
Pegasus B738 at Kayseri on Aug 11th 2016, burst both left main tyres on landing (Published on 12.08.2016)
A Pegasus Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration TC-AAV performing flight PC-4162 from Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen to Kayseri (Turkey), landed on Kayseri's runway 25 when the left main brakes locked up... read more

TC-IZE
Pegasus B738 near Salzburg on May 3rd 2016, air conditioning failure (Published on 04.05.2016)
A Pegasus Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration TC-IZE performing flight PC-327 from Izmir (Turkey) to Stuttgart (Germany), was enroute at FL350 about 20nm east of Salzburg (Austria) when the crew... read more

TC-AVP
Pegasus B738 near Istanbul on Oct 19th 2015, cabin did not pressurize (Published on 19.10.2015)
A Pegasus Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration TC-AVP performing flight PC-196 from Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen to Diyarbakir (Turkey), was climbing through FL230 out of Istanbul when the crew decided to... read more

TC-CPA
Pegasus B738 near Sofia on Aug 28th 2015, failed engine restarted in flight (Published on 28.08.2015)
A Pegasus Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration TC-CPA performing flight PC-5565 from Antalya (Turkey) to Amsterdam (Netherlands) with 163 passengers and 6 crew, was enroute at FL380 about 130nm... read more

TC-IZD
Pegasus B738 near Thessaloniki on May 18th 2015, loss of cabin pressure (Published on 18.05.2015)
A Pegasus Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration TC-IZD performing flight PC-5121 from Bodrum (Turkey) to London Gatwick,EN (UK) with 49 passengers, was enroute at FL400 about 30nm north of... read more

TC-AAN
Pegasus B738 at Trabzon on Jul 13th 2014, bird strike (Published on 13.07.2014)
A Pegasus Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration TC-AAN performing flight PC-135 from Trabzon to Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen (Turkey) with 140 passengers, was climbing out of Trabzon's runway 11 when a... read more

TC-DCA
Pegasus A320 at Istanbul on Apr 25th 2014, rejected takeoff after tail strike (Published on 06.05.2014)
A Pegasus Airbus A320-200, registration TC-DCA performing flight PC-512 from Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen (Turkey) to Tehran Imam Khomeini (Iran) with 154 people on board, was accelerating for takeoff from... read more

TC-AAS
Pegasus B738 at Amsterdam on Apr 8th 2014, tail scrape on takeoff
(Published on 08.04.2014)
A Pegasus Boeing 737-800, registration TC-AAS performing flight PC-672 from Amsterdam (Netherlands) to Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen (Turkey) with 126 passengers and 6 crew, departed Amsterdam's runway 24,... read more

TC-CCP
Pegasus B738 near Sochi on Feb 7th 2014, suspected hijack attempt (Published on 07.02.2014)
A Pegasus Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration TC-CCP performing flight PC-751 from Kharkov (Ukraine) to Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen (Turkey) with 110 people on board, was enroute at FL370 about 285nm... read more

TC-AAE
Pegasus B738 at Istanbul on Dec 4th 2013, bird strike (Published on 05.12.2013)
A Pegasus Boeing 737-800, registration TC-AAE performing flight PC-705 from Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen (Turkey) to Milan Bergamo (Italy), was climbing out of Istanbul's runway 06 when the crew stopped... read more

TC-AJP
Pegasus B738 at Istanbul on Oct 3rd 2013, tail strike indication on takeoff (Published on 04.10.2013)
A Pegasus Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration TC-AJP performing flight PC-395 from Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen (Turkey) to Zurich (Switzerland), departed Sabiha Gokcen's runway 06 but stopped the climb... read more

TC-CCP
Pegasus B738 at Istanbul on Sep 24th 2012, go-around due to runway not clear (Published on 27.09.2012)
A Pegasus Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration TC-CCP performing flight PC-159 from Gaziantep to Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen (Turkey) with 158 passengers and 6 crew, was on final approach to Sabiha... read more

TC-AAR
Pegasus B738 near Amsterdam on Jun 19th 2012, passenger oxygen masks released (Published on 21.06.2012)
A Pegasus Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration TC-AAR performing flight PC-284 from Amsterdam (Netherlands) to Antalya (Turkey) with 189 people on board, has just reached cruise FL350 about 135nm... read more

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17208
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#25 Post by Boac » Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:41 pm

The Trabzon crash was really spectacular viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3053&p=120808&hilit=trabzon#p120808 if prizes are to be awarded. It is amazing that they can find an insurance company - assuming they do, of course....

User avatar
Rwy in Sight
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 6740
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:04 pm
Location: Lost in an FIR somewhere
Gender:

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#26 Post by Rwy in Sight » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:12 pm

It is not hard to find an insurance company to insure anything the premium will just be higher.

User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17596
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: With the Water People near Trappist-1

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#27 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:27 pm

Rwy in Sight wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:12 pm
It is not hard to find an insurance company to insure anything the premium will just be higher.
Simply put but well said... money talks...
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17208
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#28 Post by Boac » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:56 pm

A good friend who was an aviation insurance broker for many years told me about KLM and their renewal of their policy with their broker. The broker refused, saying 'you have had a wonderful accident-free time, but this year I will increase the policy significantly - I just have that feeling.' KLM went to another broker. The year? 1976.

User avatar
Rwy in Sight
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 6740
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:04 pm
Location: Lost in an FIR somewhere
Gender:

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#29 Post by Rwy in Sight » Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:08 pm

I am curious to learn his reaction in late March 1977.

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17208
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#30 Post by Boac » Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:21 pm

Relief I guess?

User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17596
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: With the Water People near Trappist-1

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#31 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:33 pm

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:27 pm
Rwy in Sight wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:12 pm
It is not hard to find an insurance company to insure anything the premium will just be higher.
Simply put but well said... money talks...
And knowledge and stat's work...
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17208
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#32 Post by Boac » Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:36 pm

Out of interest, who here would insure Pegasus if you were in broking? I wouldn't - I could not charge enough premium to cover the risk.

User avatar
Rwy in Sight
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 6740
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:04 pm
Location: Lost in an FIR somewhere
Gender:

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#33 Post by Rwy in Sight » Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:50 pm

I would - ask a consortium to quote me a price add a decent mark up and give them a quote they can't refuse if they don't want to stop flying!

User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17596
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: With the Water People near Trappist-1

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#34 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:52 pm

Rwy in Sight wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:50 pm
I would - ask a consortium to quote me a price add a decent mark up and give them a quote they can't refuse if they don't want to stop flying!
I like your style. We should talk... o:-)
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17208
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#35 Post by Boac » Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:56 pm

" ask a consortium to quote me a price" - I think that is where you might come unstuck!

User avatar
Undried Plum
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 7308
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:45 pm
Location: 56°N 4°W

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#36 Post by Undried Plum » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:08 pm

I'm what used to be called a 'name' at Lloyds of London. I therefore keep a close eye on such matters; and for another reason.

It's up/down to the man in the box in the Fugly Building in Lime Street to decide, but he must always watch his back and keep an eye on those of us who have 'Funds At Lloyds' and who underwrite the Underwriters. It's our money he spends/earns, not his.

I have a now 200-long list of risks at which I indicate a wag of my forefinger and tap of the side of my nose to my Managing Agent in discussions of such matters. I don't make the decisions though. The clever people do that.

It's my money, minoritorally but largely, which those **** blow into smoke in these easily avoidable losses.

My pony in the race sometimes limps and occasionally the bugger throws me off its back. I grump every time.

User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17596
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: With the Water People near Trappist-1

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#37 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:14 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:08 pm
I'm what used to be called a 'name' at Lloyds of London. I therefore keep a close eye on such matters; and for another reason.

It's up/down to the man in the box in the Fugly Building in Lime Street to decide, but he must always watch his back and keep an eye on those of us who have 'Funds At Lloyds' and who underwrite the Underwriters. It's our money he spends/earns, not his.

I have a now 200-long list of risks at which I indicate a wag of my forefinger and tap of the side of my nose to my Managing Agent in discussions of such matters.

It's my money, minoritorally but largely, which those **** blow into smoke in these easily avoidable losses.

My pony in the race sometimes limps and occasionally the bugger throws me off its back. I grump every time.
I suspect you will survive, good man that you seem to be. Unlike James Hunt, who good man that he was, was totally burned!
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

User avatar
Rwy in Sight
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 6740
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:04 pm
Location: Lost in an FIR somewhere
Gender:

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#38 Post by Rwy in Sight » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:18 pm

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:52 pm
Rwy in Sight wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:50 pm
I would - ask a consortium to quote me a price add a decent mark up and give them a quote they can't refuse if they don't want to stop flying!
I like your style. We should talk... o:-)
It would be my pleasure TGG!

Boac my wise-book says: the solution of a problem is to find the person who can provide a solution. I just need to find the right person and I don't think it is that difficult - they will make a decent profit. ISTR right after September 2001 airline executive realized they NEEDED to have war insurance if they wanted to operate. Hence you can insure everything for a forward danger and the insurance agent would love you.

I used to work for an a company with a horrible atmosphere. We decided to participate on an industry expo with their top product they/we only had one unit with a lead time for a replacement of several moths. A colleague who wanted to earn points with the boss pointed out the risk to the product - I was running the preparations for the exhibition. I said no problem will we insure it and I ask how the company was handling the insurance coverage. Once I had the contact details, I rang the insurance broker and I asked him to provide coverage for the transit to and from the venue, any damage during the expo and I asked to cover the eventuality of a kid running to it, and having an accident and pay the mother of the kid such an amount she would offered her second kid to have a similar accident. The insurance agent was glad to provide cover. All it takes is to ask the right person.

I am not sure it is accurate but it is like when the UK government prohibited insurance companies to refuse cover to teenage drivers. They just push the premiums up really high.

User avatar
Undried Plum
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 7308
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:45 pm
Location: 56°N 4°W

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#39 Post by Undried Plum » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:25 pm

That was in the really really bad days. I remember them well.

The MAs stiffed an awful lot of people when Names carried all the risk on the shirts of their own backs.

The bastard MAs found a way of pushing forward unseen risk onto names without those names even knowing what risk they/we carried. Legalised criminality, in effect.

I was lucky. I survived financially by multiple flukes of chance and most undeserved good luck. I still have a bit of a carry on though. Every time a former MA dies in unobvious circumstances, I always get a visit from a usually bored CID detective to 'rule me out' from investigations.

Edited to add that I was answering Post #37, not the immediately and at that moment unread, subsequent one.

Edited further to add, after a glass of Macallan that: I sometimes wish I could tell one of those detectives that it woz me wot dunnit, coz the MAs are mostly a bunch of unscrupulous bastards. Sadly, I don't think most Rozzers can spell the word unscrupulous in their notebooks. Harrumph!

Edited even further to add, after yet another glass of Mac30: pppzzzfzdchxx, 'n Slashsh shousyertitz, n wheres ra RAF nursseswotsgot biguns '**** the pope 'n shyte 'n shytelike that. Gnight before it all goes black like last time.

User avatar
Rwy in Sight
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 6740
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:04 pm
Location: Lost in an FIR somewhere
Gender:

Re: Pegasus the winged horse?

#40 Post by Rwy in Sight » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:23 am

Boac wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:56 pm
" ask a consortium to quote me a price" - I think that is where you might come unstuck!
I just thought one more thing: Pegasus is a Turkish airline and I understand the government of Turkey is keen on helping national champions to gain a strong foothold even after some setbacks. So I would start asking a Turkish insurance company preferably if there is a State owned one

Post Reply