Pakistan Airbus Down

[Boac]

More info https://www.airlive.net/breaking-new-ph ... go-around/

[barkingmad]

I’ve washed my mouth out with soap and water (for 20 seconds) but I recommend one sneaks into TOP and on the PIA crash thread take a look at the vid in post #281.
That’s how it should be done though I feel awful sorry for our French compatriots in their misfortune!

[Boac]

You never get it right! It is 20 seconds of HAND WASHING!

[Pontius Navigator]

I’ve washed my mouth out with soap and water (for 20 seconds) but I recommend one sneaks into TOP and on the PIA crash thread take a look at the vid in post #281.
That’s how it should be done though I feel awful sorry for our French compatriots in their misfortune!

Now if he had motored the prop before landing:

As a Master Pilot did on the Anson when the wheels would not come down. He did a perfect 3 point landing and no damage to the aircraft at all.

[llondel]

Are travellers excluded from following Ramadam rules?

I saw an interview with a Muslim pilot once where he said that yes, it was a valid reason for not following the rules, because the lives of those in the back depend on him. However, I think it was done more in terms of he had a co-pilot who was not Muslim and that while he was fasting, he would break fast if he felt it necessary.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Hypoglycemic, hunger stressed pilots...

[barkingmad]

You never get it right! It is 20 seconds of HAND WASHING!

It’s a FAIRCOP (!) boac, I do admit I was unsure in a recent O-N post where NHS England advised me to “rub the palms together” and until then I’d been either rubbing the soles of my feet together whilst abluting or I’d been searching for a kindly sympathetic soul who’d allow me to rub their palms together.
Following on my experimental tasting of bleach-washed chicken breasts/thighs (OFSO are you awake?!) I just thought a quick mouthwash with Wright’s Coal Tar soap would enable me to savour the Shiraz with my evening meal. It didn’t!

On a more serious note, on seeing the original energy figures, for the tragic PK8303, of too many feet of potential + possible kinetic energy versus too few miles to some sort of touchdown, I recall that during my time on the line, very few if any flight manuals nor line trainers were able to impart the necessary knowledge to me and other line dogs to easily acquire the mental maths to nail it every time.
I also recall some trainers using RoD and ALT and distance to a fix figures, constantly number-crunched and complex compared with HaT, IAS+W/V versus DTG, to arrive at an appreciation of energy and ability to manage it in the conflicting requirements of CDAs and ATC requirements to stay fast/high/cut in close.
This is bad enough for a CAA/JAA/EASA regulated operation, but couple that with some of our 3rd world colleagues with the attendant cultural and authority gradient complications, then we are destined to see more of the same incidents/accidents.
I have, thankfully, no experience of the ‘bus manuals but the Boeing books to me, after a decade of playing with NG700/800s, were sadly deficient in advisory info regarding energy management.
The scant information was buried in the Supplementary Procedures section instead of being out there somewhere in the Normal-Ops parts of the FCM and consistently failed to adequately address the correctional factors needed for ambient wind effects, ATC ‘deviations’ and weight factors.
So, in empathy with the unfortunate crew in this accident, I will firmly place the first slice of Swiss cheese in the area of the manufacturer’s Flight Manual, then more slices with the training recommendations and the LTCs, as supervised by their management, before looking at the individuals on the flight deck on the accident day.
Last year, 6 years after hanging up my headset, I was asked by a LTC of an EASA carrier, who’d been tasked by his company to produce a Noddy’s guide for their newly qualified trainees, to lay out my thoughts on paper so’s he could pass it on to training management as an easily digestible easily reproduced tactic to use when in the stressful stage of descent planning and execution.
I complied with the request but have no idea if the “Not Invented Here” rule intercepted/rejected my input.
Note: I haven’t even covered, just queried, the Ramadan and fatigue areas yet, but that’s neither Boeing nor Airboos’s remit.

[Rwy in Sight]

From the video it seems the scrap marks in two segments. Is it significant or it may be from bouncing up?

[barkingmad]

It’s certainly ‘scrap’ now? We wait for DFDR and CVR analysis, meantime speculation continues.
Interesting to hear reports from their pilots’ union spokesfolk that they’re doubtful about an objective accident report.
That is hardly a vote of confidence in their safety and regulatory authorities?

[Rwy in Sight]

Is PIA state-owned?

[G-CPTN]

Is PIA state-owned?

The national flag carrier of Pakistan under the administrative control of the Secretary to the Government of Pakistan for Aviation.

[Rwy in Sight]

Is PIA state-owned?

The national flag carrier of Pakistan under the administrative control of the Secretary to the Government of Pakistan for Aviation.

Not a recipe for success.

[Dushan]

Hypoglycemic, hunger stressed pilots...

Discussed on, you know where, to death, but looks like some posts were deleted.
Someone called it "an elephant on the flight deck". Maybe it was COG that was disrupted.

[ExSp33db1rd]

Maybe it was COG that was disrupted.

I recall a tale of a BOAC York Freighter having a loose elephant, the trim control was well exercised !

I think there was also one that used its trunk to strip the insulation from various cables and control runs running along the top of the freight compartment !

[TheGreenGoblin]

Hypoglycemic, hunger stressed pilots...

Discussed on, you know where, to death, but looks like some posts were deleted.
Someone called it "an elephant on the flight deck". Maybe it was COG that was disrupted.

Oh well at least it wasn't a pink elephant! Such have lost many a pilot his ticket.

And don't mention African crocodiles...

On 25 August 2010, a Let L-410 Turbolet passenger aircraft of Filair crashed on approach to Bandundu Airport in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, killing all but one of the 21 people on board.

The accident was reportedly the result of the occupants rushing to the front of the aircraft to escape from a crocodile smuggled on board by one of the passengers. The move compromised the aircraft's balance to the point that control of the aircraft was lost

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Fi ... -410_crash

[ExSp33db1rd]

and wasn't it a Tudor ( or DC-4 ? ) that crashed at Cardiff, it was announced that they were about to land and all the passengers left their seats and went to queue by the rear door.

[TheGreenGoblin]

and wasn't it a Tudor ( or DC-4 ? ) that crashed at Cardiff, it was announced that they were about to land and all the passengers left their seats and went to queue by the rear door.

A Tudor as you say.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llandow_air_disaster

[barkingmad]

At least it was an orderly queue, not one of these scrums as demonstrated by ‘furriners’?!

[Pontius Navigator]

An authoritative rumour on TOP has it as a snr captain and a low hours FO. If 2 captains isn't good, this sounds even better.

[Boac]

PN - any chance of clearing up this one? Third time of asking.

"BOAC, do you think for one moment that DC or NF are the only ones? It's just a witch hunt. If we had a prominent criticiser on Labour's side that they wouldn't do the same."