Pakistan Airbus Down

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TheGreenGoblin
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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#61 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon May 25, 2020 6:24 pm

Boac wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 4:40 pm
PN - any chance of clearing up this one? Third time of asking.

"BOAC, do you think for one moment that DC or NF are the only ones? It's just a witch hunt. If we had a prominent criticiser on Labour's side that they wouldn't do the same."
What has British politics got to do with this crash! PN sounds like one the fecking politicised Gauleiters in the SADF back in the day!

PN! What say you? Or have I missed the point again?

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#62 Post by Boac » Mon May 25, 2020 6:38 pm

It's just that he never seems to read posts (especially his own... =)) ) so I thought I MIGHT just be lucky and catch him 'glancing' off this thread. It started here viewtopic.php?f=64&t=4694&start=920#p235772

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#63 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon May 25, 2020 6:51 pm

Boac wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 6:38 pm
It's just that he never seems to read posts (especially his own... =)) ) so I thought I MIGHT just be lucky and catch him 'glancing' off this thread. It started here viewtopic.php?f=64&t=4694&start=920#p235772
I don't know him personally but value his opinion and experience, sense of humour etc. hence my questions...

As I do many people that post here...
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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#64 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon May 25, 2020 7:37 pm

I guess we are all getting older... =))
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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#65 Post by Boac » Tue May 26, 2020 7:44 am

Amazingly it appears (from Av Herald) that there were only 4 injuries among 'the locals' and no deaths. I find that difficult to believe when an Airbus and burning fuel is dumped onto a residential area mid-afternoon?

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#66 Post by barkingmad » Tue May 26, 2020 8:35 pm

Some more info on this one;

https://dunyanews.tv/en/Pakistan/546988 ... g-gear-ATC

Elsewhere speculation (as always) that they might have used early gear to acquire the profile from above, in the relief at getting on/near the glide they forgot gear was 'down', called for gear in the landing checks and moved the gear lever...

Sad that we're still looking at accidents due to failures of Energy Management, so after 2-engined go-around practice will this be the next 'flavour of the month' in recurrent simulator details? :-?

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#67 Post by Boac » Tue May 26, 2020 8:43 pm

I recall one of the RAF's finest, a Crarnwell JP student who got totally out of phase on a solo circuit detail and started putting his gear UP downwind and getting red flares on finals. Took a couple of circuits to sort him out. No doubt he reached high rank.................

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#68 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Wed May 27, 2020 12:55 am

Just wrote a long piece on the TOP thread on this subject that was been instantly withdrawn - why did I bother, should have know better but got sucked in.

IF they made the first approach with the gear retracted, wouldn't the Tower operator have called " No Gear " ? Not ATC responsibility maybe, but I detailed an incident of mine where we had deliberately left the gear up until late in the approach, in fact never lowered it and performed a go around, but the Tower subsequently claimed that we had ignored their advice that we had "No gear".

What I'm suggesting is that if the Tower didn't advise the crew of no gear on the first approach, can we assume that it was in fact correctly in place ?

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#69 Post by Alisoncc » Wed May 27, 2020 6:39 am

Boac wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 7:44 am
Amazingly it appears (from Av Herald) that there were only 4 injuries among 'the locals' and no deaths. I find that difficult to believe when an Airbus and burning fuel is dumped onto a residential area mid-afternoon?
This is Paki land. I understand that all deaths of residents were attributed to Covid-19.
Rev Mother Bene Gesserit.

Sent from my PDP11/05 running RSX-11D via an ASR33 (TTY)

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#70 Post by AtomKraft » Wed May 27, 2020 6:53 am

I've never worked in 'Paki land', but I flew for a few years in India- which is a few clicks better, but not that much.

Things happen in this part of the world that are inexplicable to 'First World' operators, but believe me anything is possible hereabouts.

Pilots here are 'god-like' and treated like royalty. A pilots salary might be five to fifty times what his fellow nationals earn, and people who have no business being at the controls of an aircraft are routinely encountered.
Nepotism, 'Jack' and bribery go a long way in these parts.

I'd certainly be surprised if this accident had happened to a European or US operator, but in Pakistan?

If it was going to happen anywhere, it'd be right here.

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#71 Post by Boac » Wed May 27, 2020 7:01 am

ExSP33dbird - there is no requirement nor expectation that (civil) ATC will even look at the gear of an approaching aircraft. It may just not be practical, and anyway it has traditionally been a pilot's responsibility to ensure a 'quieter' and more successful landing. If I read some of the reports on this accident correctly the aircraft may well have been on Approach frequency anyway.

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#72 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Wed May 27, 2020 7:43 am

Boac...ATC. Accepted, wasn't in anyway suggesting that they should, but having experience of ATC being "helpful", just a thought.

I guess having declared a Mayday on the frequency "in use", they may well have still been on approach for the last few minutes before the final crash, but not the "normal" (?) first approach of which there are questions about the position of the gear, and they would presumably be on Tower freq. for that ?

I would still be surprised if, seeing an aircraft about to screw up their runway for some time, an ATC operator wouldn't make some attempt to draw the crew's attention to it, if they were watching ?

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#73 Post by Boac » Wed May 27, 2020 7:58 am

There is no mention anywhere I have found that they were asked to 'change' to Approach after the touchdown so I suspect they remained on approach throughout?

What do we know? An idle thought creeping in here - just suppose PNF took the 'final' step of raising the gear to 'force' a g/a when the PF may not have reacted to his requests. It has been done before. Why not chuck another log on the fire? FDR, of course, will tell, if we ever get to know......................

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#74 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Wed May 27, 2020 9:14 am

Yeah ! Will we ever get to know, or just be fed "excerpts" to prove a point.

Approach freq ? IF the last bit of the first landing were on Tower freq. might they not have remained with the tower to effectively just do a circuit, then of course there wouldn't have been any command to change to another freq.? No idea, heard little, losing interest, will have to wait. Glad the FDR has been sent away, too many local vested interest. A report suggests that vital parts of the VCR are missing, doesn't this strike you as odd ? I thought that the FDR and VCR were virtually indestructible, and could only be totally lost or eventually recovered, being constructed to withstand high external force and fire ?

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#75 Post by Boac » Wed May 27, 2020 9:54 am

I think if I were PIA I might not be too dissappointed if the CVR had been 'dismantled' by the crash and 'parts' lost.............

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#76 Post by AtomKraft » Wed May 27, 2020 1:00 pm

It's probably not an official duty. But if the wheels were indeed up, a wee call would have been helpful, especially as they floated down the runway....

After all, it's a very quiet time for ATC and the airport.

I'd have thought the tower guy would have been looking.

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#77 Post by Boac » Wed May 27, 2020 2:44 pm

Too busy fasting?

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#78 Post by AtomKraft » Wed May 27, 2020 2:53 pm

Or sleeping....

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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#79 Post by 4mastacker » Wed May 27, 2020 6:09 pm

..or nose pressed to the floor?
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Re: Pakistan Airbus Down

#80 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Wed May 27, 2020 6:46 pm

4mastacker wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:09 pm
..or nose pressed to the floor?
I have always wondered if one's nose should take up a magnetic bearing to Mecca or should the bearing be a "True" one! Have I just committed some unpardonable blasphemy? :-s
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