New Zealand Helicopter Crash
New Zealand Helicopter Crash
Parents feared dead after helicopter crash north of Kaikōura
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123711 ... of-kaikura
Two parents are feared dead and two of their children badly injured after a helicopter crash north of Kaikōura. A third child was also injured in the tragedy.
Very sad. Maybe a servo problem or with the fenestron. It's pretty intact so should be easier to find the cause.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123711 ... of-kaikura
Two parents are feared dead and two of their children badly injured after a helicopter crash north of Kaikōura. A third child was also injured in the tragedy.
Very sad. Maybe a servo problem or with the fenestron. It's pretty intact so should be easier to find the cause.
Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
20 - 30 metres off the ground? Maybe trying to land with a suspected problem.
- CharlieOneSix
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
From other reports apparently he had only had the EC120 for two months. I don't know the type - and just idling wondering - but a possibility is that he was trying to land having suffered a loss of hydraulics. It only has a single system.
Airbus put out a Safety Information Notice No. 3013-S-29 in 2016 following some non-fatal accidents during hydraulics off training:
Airbus put out a Safety Information Notice No. 3013-S-29 in 2016 following some non-fatal accidents during hydraulics off training:
If it was due to hydraulic failure he probably was at quite a high AUW with 5 on board and may not have managed the increased control loads in the final stages of the approach. Just guessing.....If there is no hydraulic assistance, Airbus Helicopters requests that you do not taxi, perform hover flights or any
form of low speed maneuvers.
The emergency procedure for hydraulic failures now recommends a very low speed running landing (approximate
ground speed of 10kts) for the helicopters concerned by this Safety Information Notice, which limits interaction
with the controls and facilitates landing without hydraulic assistance.
It is recommended to carry out the training with a reduced weight because the control loads increase with the
weight.
The helicopter pilots' mantra: If it hasn't gone wrong then it's just about to...
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
Thanks C16 - sad further article today about two orphaned kids and a third injured. They were possibly landing to have lunch at a popular restaurant by the beach north of Kaikoura:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123719 ... atal-crash
The locals had the sense to drag it back up the beach before the tide came in. The family lived in Ohoka, a popular 'village' just down the road from here.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123719 ... atal-crash
The locals had the sense to drag it back up the beach before the tide came in. The family lived in Ohoka, a popular 'village' just down the road from here.
- TheGreenGoblin
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
While not making any assumptions at all about the cause of this tragic accident, I wondered what the procedures for a hydraulic failure on the EC120 were and noted some of the comments relating to a failure on the Vertical reference site.
Does the EC120 share a similar hydraulic system to the EC130 I wonder?
Another potential "gotcha" with this type...
Servo transparency/Jack stall
https://helicopterforum.verticalreferen ... lfunction/Last May, our B3's pump-drive input quill failed. I'm not sure how the 120's system is laid-out, but the B3 has a belt driven pump-drive unit that is bolted to the hydraulic pump itself. The drive unit has a female splined shaft that fits over the hydraulic pump's male splined shaft. When ours was disassembled we found all the female splines of the pump-drive worn smooth. In other words, the pump-drive shaft just spun around the hydraulic pump shaft without any traction.
To make matters worse, when the pump-drive failed, the check valve in the right cyclic servo failed to activate. This caused a massive cyclic hardover that tried to snap roll the aircraft to the right. This manually arrested hardover continued until the engine was shutdown after landing.
Of course, the Eurocopter Tech Rep's response was the all to typical: "never seen this before". The servo was sent back to Eurocopter for tear-down and we've never heard another word about it. Since then, I've been told that a similar failure was the suspected cause of a crash in LA a couple of years ago (ENG aircraft filming some awards show), and it maybe the culprit in another crash of a Grand Canyon tour aircraft.
Does the EC120 share a similar hydraulic system to the EC130 I wonder?
Another potential "gotcha" with this type...
Servo transparency/Jack stall
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."
Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
Without knowing too much about the EC120's hydraulic system, these problems you mention GG seem to be a built in 'safety measure' to prevent excessive demands from the pilot over-stressing the airframe. I'm not sure I like that idea in a ***** or bust situation, but it's a possible occurrence which a pilot should be aware of. The descriptions of the last few seconds of flight seem to indicate a problem with yaw control. If there is hydraulic assistance in yaw I would have thought it possible to over-ride the rotation more easily than the cyclic problem described by Eurocopter.
At present I would suspect a tail rotor drive failure or a failure of the fenestron. Either way I think the accident investigators will find whether that theory is right or wrong very quickly as the wreckage is basically intact. The owner hadn't had the aircraft for very long and probably didn't have many hours on it, coupled with his attention being taken up with his approach to landing. Suddenly he's out of control at 200 feet with his wife and three children in the aircraft with him, possibly highly agitated - not easy to concentrate and instantly stressful.
Manufacturers are very reluctant to admit to failures on their part, even when all the evidence is pointing a big 'guilty' finger at them, as there's so much at stake. I hasten to add, nothing points to Eurocopter being at fault in this case! Any faults will be determined by the accident investigators.
At present I would suspect a tail rotor drive failure or a failure of the fenestron. Either way I think the accident investigators will find whether that theory is right or wrong very quickly as the wreckage is basically intact. The owner hadn't had the aircraft for very long and probably didn't have many hours on it, coupled with his attention being taken up with his approach to landing. Suddenly he's out of control at 200 feet with his wife and three children in the aircraft with him, possibly highly agitated - not easy to concentrate and instantly stressful.
Manufacturers are very reluctant to admit to failures on their part, even when all the evidence is pointing a big 'guilty' finger at them, as there's so much at stake. I hasten to add, nothing points to Eurocopter being at fault in this case! Any faults will be determined by the accident investigators.
- TheGreenGoblin
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
A very stressful scenario, as you say, and a terrible outcome for these poor folks.FD2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:50 amThe owner hadn't had the aircraft for very long and probably didn't have many hours on it, coupled with his attention being taken up with his approach to landing. Suddenly he's out of control at 200 feet with his wife and three children in the aircraft with him, possibly highly agitated - not easy to concentrate and instantly stressful.
As for jack stall I agree, it is highly unlikely that this pilot would have maneuvered (and at a high speed) in a way likely to have encountered this phenomenon. More likely to have been a loss of tail rotor effectiveness/fenestron stall etc. as you say...
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
FD2:
Very tragic and as commented they will find out what happened.
Do not mean to make light of this but you guys are crazy. 4 engines and two big bolted on wings are the only way to go.
Sorry but no excuse, fly the aircraft. Doesn't matter who is on board.Suddenly he's out of control at 200 feet with his wife and three children in the aircraft with him, possibly highly agitated - not easy to concentrate and instantly stressful.
Very tragic and as commented they will find out what happened.
Do not mean to make light of this but you guys are crazy. 4 engines and two big bolted on wings are the only way to go.
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
+1
But it is getting difficult to find a civilian flight with 4 donks these days.
Cynicism improves with age
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
True Ian. Did the A380 last year but it is usually the B777.
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
Hydraulic failure is manageable at AUGW.....as long as one has trained. Have had two of them in the AS350, and we train at GW to bring it to a hover.
Life may not be the party you hoped for, but while you're here, you may as well dance.
Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
Ex-A: As steely eyed, lantern jawed, silver backed, experienced old and bold former pilots we know that maxim through and through. After the Wessex 3 I was firmly wedded to two engines, primarily because the 3 engined Merlin and I didn't coincide and they are too expensive for civilian use! This guy wasn't a professional pilot and may well have been distracted but more likely it was a component failure he really couldn't do anything about, especially with his experience level.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123719 ... h-industry
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123719 ... h-industry
Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
Ex-A:
Why stop at 4?
B-52 an option?
PP
Why stop at 4?
B-52 an option?
PP
- TheGreenGoblin
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
I am on board so it sure as hell does!
Biggest issue I have ever encountered in flight (light twin) was an electrical fire and I was damned happy to have another person in the right seat who cracked the door open and fired the extinguisher while I flew. Highly likely I would not have had a successful outcome if they had not been there as the fire extinguisher was housed behind my seat and totally unreachable by me as as the flames licked around my legs and crotch area... Certainly raised the adrenaline level. Having a basic crew always makes for less stress.
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."
- CharlieOneSix
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
The only hydraulic failure I had was in a single system Jetranger and the forces were not excessive. In the early days of the Bell 212 circa 1973, both hydraulic systems were turned off during my conversion training. Quite heavy controls resulted and once you had reduced collective for any reason it physically could not be raised. A run on landing was essential. I’m not sure if turning off both systems on that type is practised nowadays - or indeed if it is wise.
The helicopter pilots' mantra: If it hasn't gone wrong then it's just about to...
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- CharlieOneSix
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
I found that fixed wing jet jockeys, albeit with only two engines, were quite pleased when us crazy guys turned up to fish them out of the water after their Martin Baker descents!
The helicopter pilots' mantra: If it hasn't gone wrong then it's just about to...
https://www.glenbervie-weather.org
https://www.glenbervie-weather.org
- TheGreenGoblin
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
This guy makes it look easy to do a hydraulics off landing in an R44. I didn't find it so.
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
GG:
And usually the first one to arrive on the scene of the accident. I was a bit nervous at first with the folk I was flying but soon came to the conclusion you mention. The only pressure was a smooth landing and onto the red carpet to the second.I am on board so it sure as hell does!
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.
Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
And not applying the brakes too hard because sure as hell someone will be standing up!
Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash
My standard response to "Is this safe?":
If it wasn't safe you'd have to go by yourself, cause I wouldn't.
PP
If it wasn't safe you'd have to go by yourself, cause I wouldn't.
PP