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New Zealand Helicopter Crash

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PHXPhlyer
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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#41 Post by PHXPhlyer » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:10 pm

G-Man, Charlie16, and FD2:
Since the three have the most fling-wing experience in this august body I ask you this: ^:)^
Which A/C and/or rotor system designs are most prone to ground resonance? :-?
I ask this merely to guide my purchase options for when I win the Powerball and/or MegaMillions lotteries =)) .

PP

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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#42 Post by FD2 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:42 am

I think they have mainly overcome the problem pp! Articulated rotor systems can end up at the extent of their travel on the drag dampers after being towed or the dampers checked by the engineers, so that the next rotor engagement means that the blades themselves have a centre of gravity away from the rotor hub. That can result in padding on the spot, and other factors such as the oleos, tyres etc could exacerbate the problem, leading to ground resonance in extreme cases. That could usually be overcome by a sharp increase in the engaging engine's power which would realign the blades c of g to at or nearly at the rotor hub or else shutting the engine(s) down and whacking the rotor brake on. It wasn't a problem in two bladed aircraft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_resonance

Rotor systems are usually rigid or semi-rigid nowadays on the sort of machine you could afford with your winnings, so if four passengers was sufficient for your needs I would plump for a twin squirrel (is it still an AS355?) as I'm fond of two engines. Mind you, the cockpit might fall off if you landed too heavily. ;)))

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_rotor

Seriously though, what caused the Squirrel (AStar) in C16's clip to develop ground resonance I don't know. I flew the 350 and 355 for a few years on and off and never had a problem.

It's been displayed before here but it can even happen to the very big ones. Ground runs when the aircraft is tied down can create problems if they are not equally stressed, as happened to a Wessex 3 at Culdrose, badly injuring the pilot who had previously survived Sea Vixen and I think Phantom tours.


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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#43 Post by CharlieOneSix » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:35 am

FD2 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:42 am
......Seriously though, what caused the Squirrel (AStar) in C16's clip to develop ground resonance I don't know. I flew the 350 and 355 for a few years on and off and never had a problem.

It's been displayed before here but it can even happen to the very big ones. Ground runs when the aircraft is tied down can create problems if they are not equally stressed, as happened to a Wessex 3 at Culdrose, badly injuring the pilot who had previously survived Sea Vixen and I think Phantom tours.....
The AS350 in the video I posted had a rotor system vibration in flight and as a result it ended up as ground resonance when he landed. It explains why he didn't get airborne again to get rid of the resonance.

The Wessex 3 incident - was that the one that injured Dave R, but he hadn't been fixed wing so possibly not? He was on 700H with me in '67 and along with two others, Mike H and the comedian Pete M* - later with Bristow Aberdeen, they were taken straight from getting their wings to the Mk3 instead of the Mk1 as an experiment to see how they would cope with the transition from the Whirlwind. Dave had been knocked unconscious in the tie down incident and initially nobody could get inside the rotor disk to get to him as the blades were still thrashing around. With his head injuries - even with a bonedome on - I don't believe he ever flew again?

* Lossiemouth : "Bristow 56R - what service are you requesting?"
Pete M in 56R undergoing a Line Check - "Room Service, please"


The Line Training Captain was not amused. I think Pete lost his command for 6 months as a result of that but Pete being Pete he couldn't give a stuff!
The helicopter pilots' mantra: If it hasn't gone wrong then it's just about to...
https://www.glenbervie-weather.org

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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#44 Post by FD2 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:56 am

My remaining little grey cell has been working overtime today. I thought it was the late Peter Jago but my memory is fuddled... Also I thought his was caused by one tie down breaking. I met Peter in the Simulator - he'd converted from Phantoms - but that was at the start of 1978 and he must have been flying Sea Kings after his RW conversion and Sea Kings don't do tie down ground runs. I think I have confused the two incidents and suspect the tie down incident you mention is the one that sprang to my mind. When last heard of by me Peter J was living in the south of France and delivering yachts to the West Indies from the Med. I do know that it was a Wessex 3 and that the pilot didn't fly again.

https://www.bluewateryachting.com/blog/ ... ne-life-21

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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#45 Post by FD2 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:05 am

On the subject of ATC in the North East, I was flying with ex-RM Colin C and we had asked for a radar to the ILS for 17 as he needed to do one for recency purposes. We were being taken all round Buchan by Aberdeen Radar, as several fixed wing were arriving at the time. Colin then called "G-XXXX finals for Lossiemouth" which earned a very sharp rebuke from the ATCO. It was a clear sunny day but we could pretend we weren't looking out. I think Colin was embarrassed into phoning Air Traffic to apologise but I didn't hear what his excuse was.

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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#46 Post by PHXPhlyer » Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:09 pm

Thanks for your answers.
FD2:
I agree with your assessment. :-bd
I got to ride with the first operator of the 350 in the US. AirStar Helicopters (*) started up in '89 at The Grand Canyon. The 350 was very smooth. The other tour operators at that time flew Rangers and Long Rangers. Unfortunately, I never got to ride on any of those so don't have a comparison. :-??
My only flight in a Bell product was in a Bell 47 when I was 8. My mom sprung for the sightseeing flight at the county fair an surprised me with the flight. Thanks, Mom! ^:)^
Only other heli flights: Bo-105 and Hughes 500.
No stick time yet, but I really want change that. :((

PP

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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#47 Post by G~Man » Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:06 pm

PHXPhlyer wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:09 pm
Thanks for your answers.
No stick time yet, but I really want change that. :((
A little late to the comments:
Bell--extremely stable, solid aircraft, bad back due to bad erganomics of seats/cylic position, the mediums, (Huey, 205, 212), are tanks, fly one for the logbook entry, but they get boring after a while
Astar--a little squirly, but fast and prolly the most comfortable to fly
500--like a truck, a workhorse, but the most nimble and fun you can have in a helicopter

If I was to buy one for pleasure, I would go with the Astar.
B-) Life may not be the party you hoped for, but while you're here, you may as well dance. B-)

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Re: New Zealand Helicopter Crash

#48 Post by FD2 » Thu Mar 02, 2023 4:13 am

Report published. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/131378 ... d-children

Pilot inexperience key factor in helicopter crash that killed couple, injured children

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